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JadRutherford 07-08-2012 08:58 PM

My First Bathroom Renovation...Help Needed!
 
5 Attachment(s)
This is my first bathroom renovation, and how ironic it is that I am blessed with a rotted floor to replace. I originally set out to replace the tub, install tile around the walls, and also install tile on the floor. A pretty complete renovation, but nothing I feel I can't handle.

Well...

I noticed the tub had a crack in it and I was wondering where the water was going to. As soon as I pulled up the top boards of the floor I saw that the wood was wet all underneath (see pictures). My question is, since I am new to anything renovation, what is the correct path to take as far as correcting the situation? My plan was to rip the wet floor out, replace it with dry boards, and continue on with my renovation. But am I missing anything form what you can see in the pictures? To me the plan is simple, but I fear I may be missing something important. Any tips are greatly appreciated. I am open to advice.

Here is a link to a video of the bathroom I put up on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=musGSIwP0HA

JadRutherford 07-08-2012 08:59 PM

Here is the link the the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=musGSIwP0HA

GBrackins 07-08-2012 09:06 PM

a cracked tub? I am assuming it was acrylic or fiberglass and hopefully not cast iron? Do you know what caused the crack? how long was the crack there before you started your project. my concern is the cause of the crack. was it due to mechanical damage or because you floor assembly has become weakened and the deflection (sag) in the floor caused the crack.

do you have a crawl space or is it a basement under the floor in question. you'd need to check out the condition of the existing floor joists. are they damaged, sagging, etc. Are the joists rotted or just the wood covering over the joists?

posted photos are not the same as being there. you may want to involve a local contractor to access the situation. again my concern for you is the cause of the crack.

post back when you can.

good luck!

joecaption 07-08-2012 09:23 PM

Welcome to the real world of remodeling.
And yes the flooring has to be cut out. A Toe Kick Saw will cut it out even with the bottom plates and a Sawsall or Ossilating saw will cut out the inside corners.
Replace it with Advantec 3/4" subflooring. You use constrution adhesive on top of the floor joist and it's best to screw it down with ceramic coated decking screws. It can be nailed but why take a chance.
Any time your replacing a tub you can be 99% sure the new and old drains are not going to line up. Make sure you leave room below the floor to make adjustments.
Always replace the whole tub control valve while you have it all apart.
Not worth taking a chance with a 20 plus year old valve.

You've made a whole lot more work for yourself by just ripping the sheetrock like that. A simple cut along the side of a stud with a drywall saw, sawsall, or ossilating saw would have been the way to go.

If the plan is to use a shower curtain or install any grab bars in the tub area make sure to add blocking in the walls.

JadRutherford 07-08-2012 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GBrackins (Post 961188)
a cracked tub? I am assuming it was acrylic or fiberglass and hopefully not cast iron? Do you know what caused the crack? how long was the crack there before you started your project. my concern is the cause of the crack. was it due to mechanical damage or because you floor assembly has become weakened and the deflection (sag) in the floor caused the crack.

do you have a crawl space or is it a basement under the floor in question. you'd need to check out the condition of the existing floor joists. are they damaged, sagging, etc. Are the joists rotted or just the wood covering over the joists?

posted photos are not the same as being there. you may want to involve a local contractor to access the situation. again my concern for you is the cause of the crack.

post back when you can.

good luck!

The old tub was fiberglass. It was cracked due to it being improperly settled it seems. The joists are in good shape, no sagging or wetness. It was only the wood above that was wet. We have a crawl space under the house. I do not know how long the crack was there because it was there when I moved in. I asked the owner and she said her best guess is it's a year old. That's a long time to have water leaking through that crack. The floor is rotted, but the joists are fine somehow.

JadRutherford 07-08-2012 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joecaption (Post 961205)
Welcome to the real world of remodeling.
And yes the flooring has to be cut out. A Toe Kick Saw will cut it out even with the bottom plates and a Sawsall or Ossilating saw will cut out the inside corners.
Replace it with Advantec 3/4" subflooring. You use constrution adhesive on top of the floor joist and it's best to screw it down with ceramic coated decking screws. It can be nailed but why take a chance.
Any time your replacing a tub you can be 99% sure the new and old drains are not going to line up. Make sure you leave room below the floor to make adjustments.
Always replace the whole tub control valve while you have it all apart.
Not worth taking a chance with a 20 plus year old valve.

You've made a whole lot more work for yourself by just ripping the sheetrock like that. A simple cut along the side of a stud with a drywall saw, sawsall, or ossilating saw would have been the way to go.

If the plan is to use a shower curtain or install any grab bars in the tub area make sure to add blocking in the walls.

Thank you so much for your help. I will do just what you recommend. I just want to specify, as far as the layering of the floor. You have the joist, and on top of the joist is the AdvanTech 3/4 subfloor. What goes on top of that? I noticed the current floor has what looks like roofing paper. (I'm putting down tile if that helps)

My next question, what do I seal the seams with of the AdvanTech boards where they join?

Thank you so much for your help.

JadRutherford 07-09-2012 01:26 PM

4 Attachment(s)
Day 2 Update:

I ripped up more of the flooring today, and also removed the toilet and sink. A couple of issues need to be addressed. I really need the guidance of people more skilled than I am.

First issue: The toilet flange was cemented to the pipe. Both are pvc, so I went ahead and chipped away at the flange, as I would like to lay tile underneath the new flange. Well, in my infinite wisdom I used a sawzall to section the flange to hep it break up easier, and I accidentally cut into the other pipe (that comes up from the basement). I know I'll have to replace it, no big deal. But what is the best way to replace that part of the PVC? You can see the cut in the pic.

Second issue: The floor. As you can see in the pic, there are strips of what looks like 5" wide 3/4" thick wood on top of the joists. On top of that is what looks like roofing paper, then more wood, then construction felt, then a thin peice of wood that was used to lay the vinyl on. My question is, what should I replace? Should I go a far as pulling up the strips of wood leaving only the joists? Or should I leave the strips and build up from there? I planned on using the AdvanTech 3/4" Subfloor. What exactly is the correct way to layer a bathroom floor?

I'm sorry I have so many questions. I am just so eager to do this the right way. Thank you in advance for your input.

NewHomeDIYGuy 07-09-2012 01:51 PM

I'm no expert around here, but I'm pretty sure the best thing to do is rip up the floor boards so you're down to the joists, and then lay your 3/4" T&G plywood/subfloor on top of the joists, glued and screwed to the joists. However, before you lay down the new subfloor, you should check the spans of your joists to verify that your joists meet at least the maximum allowable deflection for tile (so the subfloor won't flex at all, and your tile/grout won't crack down the road). There are calculators online that help you calculate the deflection of your joists, but best thing is to basically determine the size of your joists, and their span (the distance they run where they're not directly supported underneath). If your deflection is too high (span is too long and/or your joists are undersized), you might need to reinforce the joists BEFORE laying down the subfloor.

Fixing that drain pipe for the toilet should be a piece of cake. You'll basically just need to buy a coupler to glue a new piece in place to raise it a few inches, shouldn't be much of an issue.

At this point I'd say rip up the plank flooring and determine the size/span of your joists and verify they can handle a tile flooring.

The "layering" for tile basically goes joists, subfloor (plywood), durock/hardi backer (1/4" or 1/2" thick) laid in a bed of thinset screwed to the subfloor, then tile in a bed of thinset.

JadRutherford 07-09-2012 04:14 PM

That sounds like a plan to me. I have looked around and haven't seen anything about laying the backerboard in thinset on top of the plywood. Is this neccessary or will simply screwing it down be sufficient?

NewHomeDIYGuy 07-10-2012 08:56 AM

I'm sure someone else will chime in, but it's my understanding that laying the backerboard in thinset is critical/definitely the way to go. Reason being that the backerboard itself is kind of "brittle," and the thinset underneath the cement board fills all voids underneath and makes it very solid. When installing the cement board, you trowel thinset onto the subfloor (can't remember the trowel size I used, maybe 3/8"?) and lay the cement board in it like you would tile. Also, it's my understanding you want to screw the cement board to the subfloor but avoid hitting the joists w/ the screws. This allows some movement between the cement board and subfloor/joists, which is good because they're different materials (expand/contract at different rates). Hope that makes sense.

JadRutherford 07-10-2012 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewHomeDIYGuy (Post 962214)
I'm sure someone else will chime in, but it's my understanding that laying the backerboard in thinset is critical/definitely the way to go. Reason being that the backerboard itself is kind of "brittle," and the thinset underneath the cement board fills all voids underneath and makes it very solid. When installing the cement board, you trowel thinset onto the subfloor (can't remember the trowel size I used, maybe 3/8"?) and lay the cement board in it like you would tile. Also, it's my understanding you want to screw the cement board to the subfloor but avoid hitting the joists w/ the screws. This allows some movement between the cement board and subfloor/joists, which is good because they're different materials (expand/contract at different rates). Hope that makes sense.


That makes sense. Thank you so much for your help. Right now I'm in the process of ripping up the floor, replacing the rotted wood, and straightening out some of the 2x4s that the last person put in sloppily (so the wall will be even when I screw the backerboard on). I'll keep you updated with pics at the end of the day. I look forward to your input :thumbup:

JadRutherford 07-10-2012 04:33 PM

3 Attachment(s)
You can see the rotted wood around the shower plumbing, extending behind the closet. This will all be pulled up and replaced with the AdvanTech 3/4" subfloor I purchased last night. The reason I removed the drywall around the walls is because I had to replace a few 2x4s that were poorly installed, then I am going to tile the bottom 4 feet and paint the top half of the walls.

Just an FYI in case anyone is wondering: I bought a Dremel Multi Max with the 3" wood blade and it is terrible. If you don't mind spending 15 minutes to cut through a peice of 3/4" wood than this is the tool for you. I'm going back to Lowe's tonight to try another tool.

How is it looking so far to you guys?

ratherbefishing 07-10-2012 04:37 PM

I'm in the process of builing a bathroom and NewhomeDIYGuy saved me the time of typing. Joists, 3/4" T&G, thinset, Permabase (1/4" is standard for floors, 1/2" OK if you need the height), thinset, tile. (I'm doing electric heat under the tile, too.)

What's going where the tub was? Another? If you're doing a walk-in shower, Shluter makes a premade pan that can save you a step or two there. Also, how are you going to waterproof the shower/tub floor and walls? Figure that out before you start.

JadRutherford 07-10-2012 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratherbefishing (Post 962506)
I'm in the process of builing a bathroom and NewhomeDIYGuy saved me the time of typing. Joists, 3/4" T&G, thinset, Permabase (1/4" is standard for floors, 1/2" OK if you need the height), thinset, tile. (I'm doing electric heat under the tile, too.)

What's going where the tub was? Another? If you're doing a walk-in shower, Shluter makes a premade pan that can save you a step or two there. Also, how are you going to waterproof the shower/tub floor and walls? Figure that out before you start.

Hi, I sure am glad to hear this input from you. I am going to do exactly as you and DIYguy recommended. I have all the materials in my garage, now just have to finish ripping up this old floor. Luckily, I just got back from Lowe's after returning the Dremel MultiMax and opting instead for the RotoZip ZipSaw. I cannot say enough good things about this saw. If you need to make flush cuts, this will do the job perfectly.

I am just putting in another tub to replace the old one. Nothing fancy, just a fiberglass tub. To waterproof the shower/tub, I am first stapling 4 mil platic to the walls, then putting up 1/2 backerboard. I am using fibeglass tape for the seams and corners with a layer of thinset over top. Where the backerboard meets the tub, I am caulking the seam and putting a layer of thinset over top. After all that is done, I will be laying tile over top. Do you think I am missing a step?

JadRutherford 07-11-2012 12:45 PM

3 Attachment(s)
Day 4 Update:

I finished ripping out the old floor. I doubled up a few joists to better support the new floor as well. Now it's on to laying the new floor. Here is the first section of the new subfloor going in. I haven't secured it yet, just wanted to make sure I cut it correctly. It looks pretty good so far to me. What do you guys think? I'm about to squirt some Liquid Nails Heavy caulk to the joists and screw it in.

My only question before I begin is this: Should I add some support to the outer perimeter where the new floor meets the wall? It is not resting on anything. What do you recommend?


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