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lemonbltz 05-16-2008 09:47 PM

Mold problem after unfinished house was closed in for the winter...
 
We built the first story of our house this fall and had to close it up for the winter. Some water got in and sat there over the winter and now there is mold covering all the wood in the basement and first story. We are going to try a bleach and water solution but i've been reading that it's not effective on porous surfaces, is this true? If bleach and water doesn't work what will?

Termite 05-16-2008 10:52 PM

Bleach and water is what I've seen used on houses with similar problems. Spray it on and scrub with a brush. You may never fully get rid of it, but keeping it dry in the future will really be the most effective.

handy man88 05-16-2008 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemonbltz (Post 123679)
We built the first story of our house this fall and had to close it up for the winter. Some water got in and sat there over the winter and now there is mold covering all the wood in the basement and first story. We are going to try a bleach and water solution but i've been reading that it's not effective on porous surfaces, is this true? If bleach and water doesn't work what will?

What the professionals do is they spray a chemical on the surface, sand (while pulling a vacuum in the basement to exhaust all the particles), and then spray the surface. Also, dehumidifiers have to be constantly running.

buletbob 05-17-2008 06:06 PM

I use MoldZyme
you could google it , works great. Bleach does not kill mold and it will contaminate the ground water, good luck Bob.

Maintenance 6 05-19-2008 07:37 AM

Bleach WILL kill mold and spores. The Termite pretty much has it right. a 10% bleach water solution and a srub brush. Then dehumidify so that it dries out within 72 hours. As long as you keep the humidity level low, the mold should not re-occur. You should use a fan, not so much for the mold spores as to keep some fresh air flowing to, 1) aid in drying out and 2) to keep any chlorine fumes from the bleach to a minimum. A wet vac will help. Suck up the dirt as you go and wipe it down with a rag. After everything has dried well, spray a coat of Kilz on the area to seal it.

handy man88 05-19-2008 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maintenance 6 (Post 124147)
Bleach WILL kill mold and spores. The Termite pretty much has it right. a 10% bleach water solution and a srub brush. Then dehumidify so that it dries out within 72 hours. As long as you keep the humidity level low, the mold should not re-occur. You should use a fan, not so much for the mold spores as to keep some fresh air flowing to, 1) aid in drying out and 2) to keep any chlorine fumes from the bleach to a minimum. A wet vac will help. Suck up the dirt as you go and wipe it down with a rag. After everything has dried well, spray a coat of Kilz on the area to seal it.

They'll have to clean out their HVAC ducting also, which isn't as easy. They will need to hire a duct cleaning company, and at the end, have an environmental guy perform an air sample analysis.

Maintenance 6 05-19-2008 03:28 PM

It depends on how carried away they want to get. What kind of air sample are you going to take? Testing for particulates or a wet plate to culture some mold colonies? What will the air sample analysis tell you? That you have mold spores? Yes it will. And if you air sample inside of your refrigerator with an open bottle of Ranch dressing in there, it will tell you that you have a mold problem there too. Don't fall into the "deadly" mold trap unless you have a reason to. As long as the wood is not rotted, some cleaning and a little care will take care of the situation. With a brand new house, any air sample will be garanteed to have a high level of particulates and a higher spore count, just from the construction process. Unless you sterile clean everthing in the house and never put carpet in it and install air locks at every door with HEPA filtration, you can count on mold spores. And unless somebody in your house is undergoing cancer treatment, has severe allergies or asthma, has had an organ transplant or has HIV, you have little to worry about from mold.

buletbob 05-19-2008 08:30 PM

Bleach will not kill mold, it will tempararly get rid of it but it will not kill it. sorry to differ.
Read this link Bleach DOES NOT KILL MOLD. http://www.normi.org/articles/bleach-mold.php
http://www.moldacrossamerica.org/notobleach.
htmhttp://www.qualityenviro.net/bleach-kill-mold.shtml
http://ezinearticles.com/?True-or-False---Does-Bleach-Kill-Mold?&id=1075538

Maintenance 6 05-20-2008 07:28 AM

Sorry, but none of your links would work for me. Let me say that I've been supervising mold remediation work for at least 10 years, in a healthcare setting, where mold WILL cause problems for people and in consultation with Infection Control professionals who pull their info from the CDC (Center for Disease Control)and NIH (National Institute for Health). Both of these organizations have a lot more credibility than anything else I've seen on websites. I've got the certifications from ASHE and one of the top mold remediation professionals in the country. Both of those training venues recommend bleach. Healthcare settings are where the most susceptible people could be exposed. A 10% bleach solution is the accepted method in those settings to kill mold spores and mold colonies. There are a lot of "magic mold killer" potions out there that are being promoted, that are first a lot of hype and second, have stuff in them that is worse for the building occupant than the mold was. Almost anything will kill mold. WD40 will kill it. Gasoline, paint thinner, UV light. The idea is to have as little lasting impact as possible. Bleach solution will do that in a cheap and practical way, with little residual. In this case, the OP could remove the moisture source and the mold colonies will cease. I'd recommend a clean up to remove the carcasses, as molds, when they decompose, break down into some chemical components that can be allergens to those that are susceptible. Mold is not some bulletproof little alien creature that can't be tamed. It is a fungi. A type of plant life and the spores (seeds) are everywhere. In fact, life as we know it would cease if it were not for molds. Many, many things will kill it. Use bleach, clean up, dry the area and you will be fine.

buletbob 05-20-2008 06:57 PM

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BLEACH DOES NOT KILL MOLD!
New article disputes that bleach can be used to kill mold...



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http://www.normi.org/images/layout/spacer.gifBLEACH DOES NOT KILL MOLD!



D. Douglas Hoffman
Executive Director of NORMI
A well-known expert in our area, when interviewed on a local New Orleans radio station, recently said, "When you have a mold problem, simply wash down the affected area with diluted bleach." We have seen FEMA handing out gallons of Clorox to flood-victims. Lowe's and Home Depot stock up pallets of the stuff whenever the impending doom of a threatening hurricane is close. This is one of the most widely publicized "urban legends". Bleach is a powerful oxidizer and can, in many instances, sanitize surfaces of certain types of bacteria but when you are faced with a wall covered in mold, bleach is NOT the product to use.
Eyebrows raise in disbelief every time I say the phrase "bleach doesn't kill mold." Some look at me as if I'm speaking another language and they are right. I am speaking the TRUTH. Bleach (active ingredient is Sodium Hypochlorite) is very effective in removing the discoloration but may leave the microflora that will enable the mold to return in exactly the same spot when conditions are right. So, "how do you know this," I'm asked.
Several years ago we helped develop a process by which shingle and tile roofing systems could be cleaned of the mold and mildew that plague them. Look at any Real Estate guide or website that lists houses for sale and you'll see house after house with mold streaks running down from top to bottom of the roofing system. The mold on the roof looks ugly but that was not our biggest concern.

There are two bigger concerns and, therefore, reasons to address this roof mold problem. 1) It destroys the shingle and, 2) it makes your air conditioning system less efficient. First, shingles are made, primarily, of organic materials. The asphalt or fiberglass content in a shingle is only a small percentage of the entire composite. This organic material is ripe fruit for the mold to eat. As we all know, mold needs to have a nutrient of some sort and organic materials are especially appealing. The petroleum-based asphalt is protected from the UV light of the day's sun by a "ballast" or granules that are "glued" to the surface of the shingle. When the mold begins to grow it "pops" the granules off of the shingle exposing the asphalt to the UV, thus shortening the life of the shingle. When shingles begin to curl, that's a good sign that the shingle is drying out and its life is ending. Cleaning the roof off using an effective biocide will lengthen the life of the shingle by allowing the granules to remain tightly adhered to the surface.
Secondly, a black roof absorbs more heat than a lighter roof. Interestingly enough, in Florida, most homeowners choose a lighter roofing color for that very reason and yet, after a few years, they all end up the same color - black. We commissioned a study once in conjunction with the University of South Florida and found a substantial difference in attic temperatures once the roof was cleaned and the original lighter color was restored. I mean 30 degrees or more. That means by simply cleaning your roof to the lighter color you could make a major difference in the attic temperature and that would allow your air conditioning system to function more efficiently. In most cases the attic is the insulating space just above the air conditioned space so having those temperatures reduced substantially lowered the air conditioning bill.
The importance of understanding these problems make it relatively easy to sell the customer of the value of having their roof cleaned. However, what product or products to use could make a substantial difference in the longevity of the cleaning process and the effect of the cleaning process on the roofing system. Of course any time of high pressure wash could destroy the shingle by removing the granules so a low pressure wash is desirable and that makes the chemical solution you use more important. We used a combination of surfactants, detergents, and BLEACH (sodium hypochlorite) to lightly spray on the roof then rinse it off with no more pressure than a garden hose. It worked great. Only problems were that the landscaping had to be protected from the toxicity of Clorox and the mold would return in less than two years. Even walking around on the roof every couple of years could damage the roofing system so we looked for a better alternative.
Anecdotally, my wife wonders why she has to clean the same spot of mold on the bathroom tile month after month. Now she knows why. The mold has never been killed - it simply goes clear and then returns. Bleach will not kill the mold but a good biocide, or anti-microbial, will.
To underscore the validity of my claim, I suggest the "Journal of Forest Products" who commissioned a study by Oregon State University a couple of years ago. We have this article on our website where we have posted the abstract and the results. The "implications" of their testing showed exactly what we have been training for years. The stain disappears but the microflora remains and under the right conditions the mold will begin to grow.
In our Sanitization Protocol we recommend using GREEN technologies to remove surface mold. When you use the right kind of anti-microbial, the mold will be destroyed and the underlying bio-slime will be annihilated. I wish we had known about these kinds of technologies ten years ago when we were cleaning roofing systems. Instead of spending so much time protecting the landscape, we could have done an additional job or two. We could have completed more jobs and our subsequent warranty workload would have been reduced.



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Maintenance 6 05-20-2008 09:48 PM

From the U.S. EPA on mold clean up. The EPA, in fact, says that in some cases, detergents are overkill. The CDC references some of the same procedures.

"

Cleanup Methods
  • Method 1: Wet vacuum (in the case of porous materials, some mold spores/fragments will remain in the material but will not grow if the material is completely dried). Steam cleaning may be an alternative for carpets and some upholstered furniture.
  • Method 2: Damp-wipe surfaces with plain water or with water and detergent solution (except wood —use wood floor cleaner....Hmmmm.... Isn't that mostly bleach????); scrub as needed.
  • Method 3: High-efficiency particulate air (HEPA) vacuum after the material has been thoroughly dried. Dispose of the contents of the HEPA vacuum in well-sealed plastic bags.
  • Method 4: Discard - remove water-damaged materials and seal in plastic bags while inside of containment, if present. Dispose of as normal waste. HEPA vacuum area after it is dried.
Sorry Buletbob, we may have to agree to disagree. Bleach will kill just about eveything including the toughest micro-organisms, which includes viruses. The ONLY reason to avoid bleach would be a reaction by the applicator, such as a hyper sensitivity to the fumes emitted. I don't mean to get into a peeing contest with you, but I've done this for a long time in some VERY sensitive situations. Bleach it, dry it, clean it, seal it, forget it. It will be fine. As a side note, it seems the web page you pasted tends toward applying some biocides or anti-microbials. Since they are "partnering" with a company that produces a magic mold killer product, I would be somewhat skeptical of their credibility. The fact that he mentions "Mildew" in one of the sentences makes me skeptical, since mildew is a leaf mold that grows on the leaves of living plants or parasitically on other molds and as such is a misnomer when discussing molds that colonize in organic materials. I have no doubt that these products will kill mold, although probably for a price much higher than bleach, but, unless you are licensed to apply these materials, and carry some good liabilty insurance that covers that practice, I wouldn't recommend it. Nobody needs some kind of residual chemicals trapped inside a wall where it wasn't necessary to begin with.

Dr duerite 06-28-2011 03:43 PM

here we go again
Ozone gas will kill all the mold and the Oder that comes from mold. you can rent a machine or find a ozone service that will bring in the machine to rid you of the problem. I live in florida and assume you live elseweres, I bought too machines for my company to use in these type of problems so I believe strongly in there technology sense it cost my a grand a piece and i don't charge to run them.
How do they work you ask? every living creature need oxygen to survive and the machines create ozone gas and replace the oxygen in a room for about four hrs. Yep that means you get out of the room and towel off the bottom of the door on you way out. there is a four hr cycle o my machines. nothing will survive in that room. even the mold. It turns into a dry inert matter, dust and the Oder with it. deep mold almost always leaves a pungent smell behind, but not after ozone. the mold spores die off and you have a clean smell. Dr Durite

Maintenance 6 07-06-2011 12:48 PM

Because you spent a grand a piece does not make it viable technology. Every member of the ANIMAL kingdom depends on oxygen. Some plants can survive without it. Molds can get along without it. They are in a class unto themselves, fungi. Neither plants, nor animals. The odors associated with molds are generally a result of the emission of various mycotoxins produced by molds for defense and the reduction of their food source. Mold spores do not produce odors, mold colonies do. Mold colonies produce spores. Spores turn into more mold colonies. Mold colonies produce mycotoxins to protect themselves from bacteria, other parasitic molds and to break down organic materials into protiens that they absorb as food. Mycotoxins are odorous. I would suggest some study of mold biology. There is plenty of evidence out there to suggest that ozone technology does not represent a useful alternative to accepted mold remediation practices. Ozone generators are a method used to exterminate insects, and may be effective. Fungi are not bugs.

ccarlisle 07-06-2011 01:05 PM

Hmmm. We use a modified 10% bleach - but not on porous surfaces. I think that's where the thinking is going. Someone explained that moulds penetrate deep enough into porous surfaces to hide from topically applied rapid-kill solutions like bleach.

handy man88 07-06-2011 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ccarlisle (Post 680810)
Hmmm. We use a modified 10% bleach - but not on porous surfaces. I think that's where the thinking is going. Someone explained that moulds penetrate deep enough into porous surfaces to hide from topically applied rapid-kill solutions like bleach.

Based on my experience, mold remediation companies sand down all horizontal surfaces.


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