Moisture on windows

Scuba_Dave · 12-20-2009, 09:47 PM

I dunno, I create humidity whenever I take a shower
I like them hot......water condenses everywhere...every cold surface in the bathroom

MJW · 12-20-2009, 09:59 PM

As a matter of fact, we will be doing yet another window replacement of newer windows that sweat in the spring. These are less than 10 years old. I'll have to take some pics. Same living conditions, same everything. The problem is some (like mentioned in the original post) of the windows are failing prematurely.

Thanks for all the info though. It is much appreciated.

ccarlisle · 12-21-2009, 07:01 AM

I think the OP, MJW and oberon deserve recognition of their time and expertise in this matter of windows and condensation, so I've done something I rarely do: rate this thread.

Psychrometry (the science of "drying" sort of) is difficult at the best of times but having it explained in a practical example helps even guys like us who are already in the field of water damage.

baum · 12-21-2009, 08:03 AM

WOW sorry for the late delay guys. I will look into seeing that "cheap" windows i have and to see if any warranty there still may be. Im guessing its a long expired. THis was the WORST building expirence someone could have had. Cheaply made house at a premium.

I will also look into a humidity meter. and check rooms through out the house.

Thanks

drtbk4ever · 12-21-2009, 11:55 AM

There definitely is some fantastic information in this thread.

Baum, please answer a couple of questions for me.
1) Are your windows double or triple paned?
2) Did all the windows have condensation on them? I would expect to find more condensation on the windows in the bedrooms/kitchen/bathroom for obvious reasons.

baum · 12-21-2009, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drtbk4ever

There definitely is some fantastic information in this thread.

Baum, please answer a couple of questions for me.
1) Are your windows double or triple paned?
2) Did all the windows have condensation on them? I would expect to find more condensation on the windows in the bedrooms/kitchen/bathroom for obvious reasons.

1. not knowing off hand (not at home) i believe double. I beleve they are going to be a cheaper than a big box window.

2. mostly the windows upstairs.
house consists of:
main floor (ground level) half bath, living room, kitchen. 3 windows this level none have condensation
2nd floor consists of 2 bedrooms, a full bath, master 3/4 bath master closet and upstairs living room.
All windows (5 total) on this floor have condensation only about 1/2-1" up from the bottom.
basement, poured concrete walls floor to ceiling with 1 egress window no condensation.

oberon · 12-22-2009, 06:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJW

You know what's wrong with this...........#1. lab results vary greatly from real world #2. You keep explaining plain laws over and over again proving me right, but won't give me credit for it. #3. I do this for a living also, and I don't need a paragraph explaining how moisture forms. #4. It comes down to two words....crumby windows

You create a scenario, which fits what you are saying, but it doesn't have real world effect. If it did we'd have a few more posts about moisture on windows.

Why does this persons home have the moisture, condensation.......that's the question. I think we all know how it forms now, but why? What causes it?

I think we know that humidity will cause moisture to form on cold surfaces now, especially if it's very humid, but why is it humid?

This is the difference between a Contractor and an engineer. The engineer just explains how to do things out of a book and put it on paper. The Contractor actually has to make it work or fix the situation.

I want to thank you as well. This has been a great thread and really fun to be one of the participants. I have enjoyed reading all the posts on here and the debate has been stimulating. Believe me, I very much value your field experiences.

I think I may be seeing where our communication break down is occuring - maybe?

Are you saying that humidity is coming in from outside when the windows leak? That condensation is forming on the windows when higher humidity air leaks into the home and contacts the window surface?

MJW · 12-22-2009, 10:33 AM

When warm and cold air meet, there is moisture........not all the time, but when it happens, it happens where they meet.

Anyhow, it appears I may be incorrect with the original poster's problem. Being all the problem windows are upstairs..........

baum......did you get a RH reading at all yet? Did you try anything like a fan, opening shades? Does the condensation get less the more our outside temps have risen lately?

baum · 12-22-2009, 10:38 AM

Sorry i have not yet got a reading. Can i get a meter like this at HD? how expensive are they?

3 windows (upstairs living room) have no curtains or blinds on them. The 2 bedroom windows do have mini blinds on them, but they are pulled up about 6-8" from the bottom to see if it would help. So far nothing.

There is still moisture on all the same windows.

ccarlisle · 12-22-2009, 11:15 AM

They're about $8 up here at DIY box stores: two dials one a thermometer the other the relative humidity gauge.

Readings go hand-in-hand because both are connected; the relative humidity is only a given number at a certain temperature. So what we're looking for are statements like: "my upstairs room is x %RH at x temperature"...for example.

You probably have 'the chimney effect' of warm air rising throughout your house so the moist air is upstairs...unfortunately, the warm air contains the moisture, so the amount of humidity in the air will probably rise as you go up. Hence the upstairs windows having condensation on them. What heating system do you have?

drtbk4ever · 12-22-2009, 01:34 PM

BINGO. We have the answer. The humidity in the upstairs is high enough to cause condensation on the cold windows. It is logical that humidity levels will be higher in bedrooms and bathrooms, which is why in this case only the upstairs windows have condesation on them. I would be willing to bet that if Baum boils water to make pasta, he may find condensation on the kitchen windows too.

Cheapest solution: Live with it. Put towels on the window sill to catch drips and leave blinds and curtains open as long as possible which will encourage more air flow, hopefully reducing condensation.
Cheap solution: Put the plastic film over the windows.
Medium price solution: Buy a de-humidifier and put it upstairs.
Expensive: Upgrade your windows to triple pane, and make sure they are installed correctly.

Did I miss anything?

jaros bros. · 12-22-2009, 06:39 PM

Yes, I think you may have missed the real solution. Install an air exchanger. New tight building mandates the use of an air exchanger. I believe it is even code in some areas now.