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A Mike Holmes question

16K views 75 replies 30 participants last post by  Gary in WA 
#1 ·
I notice that in just about every episode when Mike's crew does a reconstruction they use screws instead of say a nail gun.

Does anyone have any ideas why, is it code in Canada?
 
#20 ·
Mike was a guest speaker at our local home show a couple yrs back and I asked him this specific question. His reply was that he isn't using deck screws but higher tensile strength screws that have higher shear levels. He agrees deck screws would never last. He also said that the show doesn't always show us how much construction adhesive he actually uses. But using higher strength screws will hold better than nails and have the same shear strength. He knows the cost is more than nails but like always, he overbuilds the things he does.
 
#54 ·
Duckweather said:
Ever knock a stud out of a wall with a sledge? Which fails first, nails, screws, or the wood?
Doesn't matter ......all you need is nails to frame a house.

You Diyer's can screw all you want and follow Mikey boy thinking its stronger or better. Just use common sense and ask yourself why every house is framed with nails now and way....way.....back when.
 
#56 ·
Doesn't matter ......all you need is nails to frame a house.

You Diyer's can screw all you want and follow Mikey boy thinking its stronger or better. Just use common sense and ask yourself why every house is framed with nails now and way....way.....back when.
OK, I asked myself your question and I'd have to say they go way back using nails because cordless inpacts/drills weren't around way back. And today, pheumatic nailers make framing much quicker with nails than screws will ever be so that is largely why most contractors use them.

Thanks for slamming my response about MH's having been at our local Home show and explaining why he uses screws. I never said I believe him. I still use nails for framing. I just posted what his response was. But you seem to have a sore spot when it comes to MH's. What I take from the show is more about what to watch for, how to find good contractors by references and seeing their work at other sites, making sure the contractor gets permits and yes, he does have some very good points on his show. But just like you, he has his own opinions.
 
#68 ·
Good lord this thread is ridiculous.

The industry is absolutely riddled with "we do it that way because it's always been done that way." The building industry is not famous for quality, it's famous for cutting margins, getting things built faster and cheaper, and razor thin margins in a cutthroat environment filled with cheap labor.

Nails are rarely better than nails, although obviously nails are often more practical (on trim, for example, and roofing). Some screws are weak (e.g. drywall screws), but some of the newer structural screws are super strong. Simpson screws, for example are stronger than the equivalent nails they replace.

Screws also have the advantage that they can be taken out easily without damaging anything.

Of course nails are usually cheaper and faster than screws, which is the main reason they're used - don't kid yourself. But the reason that nails are used is certainly not that "hey a lot of houses built with nails are still standing." That has nothing at all to do with which is better.
 
#69 ·
While the STRUCTURAL screws may be better (I'm not debating that, I agree) the morons who work at the box stores are too stupid to know that drywall and deck screws CANNOT be used in place of nails in structural applications.

You want to know why a lot of "cheap" "crappy" work goes on? Its the homeowners fault many times! I can't count the number of times I've heard "Wow, you're the highest, you know billy bob smells like booze drives a beat up truck and has no insurance was 30% lower than you!" Hmmm... I wonder why...? I guarantee there are guys in every industry, in every market, that do things above the board (and still follow code, unlike deck screws in simpson hardware mike holmes) but lots don't or won't pay their rates OR they don't even know how to find them, here is a hint... They probably don't advertise much, they certainly don't have the largest yellow page ad, but they do top notch work and it speaks for itself.

Not trying to toot my own horn but we do high end custom decks (typical deck is $30,000+). In the area we prefer to work we've done 13 projects (1 more signed for 2 months from now, and 2 more considering, so potentially 16) in a 2 street radius of 125 homes. That is +10% of the homes on those 2 streets, that's not an easy task to do when selling something that costs as much as a car. I do minimal advertising and I'm not even sure that it's effective, because every time we get a call on those streets its "So and so referred you, or we saw you on that house on the corner" Trust me this would not be happening if we did things half ass and tried to screw everyone over.
 
#71 ·
Holmes is a remodeler, a contractor who does repairs. He's NOT a framer. Framers couldn't get a job if they used screws because of both the cost and 3 X the labor time...who would pay for that? But in defense of screws, when you are working along side of finished walls and in place structures, screws won't bang anything out of place or crack walls. Everyone here has used both. When the situation calls for it I do as well. M. Holmes thinks that the screws are appropriate for his situation(s). So why is that such a big deal? Let him do what he wants and if it's against code call him on it. There is obviously some differences in the Canadian and US codes. Look at those sideways electrical panels that are installed 9 out of 10 times. M Holmes seems to do overkill in most cases....wouldn't everyone want a contractor who thought that way rather than just "good enough?" And I agree with Ddawg for the most part. Busy contractors don't spend much time in chat rooms...they are either working or looking for the next job. (at least around here):whistling2:
 
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#72 ·
...wouldn't everyone want a contractor who thought that way rather than just "good enough?"
Are you willing to pay the 3x labor and the higher material costs? :no: That doesn't come free.

I come here to educate people because there are people like mh who spread misinformation.

I also come here because the links at the bottom of my signature supply link juice for my website, everytime I post on a relevant topic it helps my web presence. Web presence sells me jobs, so while you're thinking I'm wasting time, I'm actually selling projects.
 
#75 ·
Posts have been removed for breaking the forum rule; "Users shall treat each other with respect at all times on DIYChatroom.com. Name calling, personal attacks, or other inappropriate behavior will not be allowed and may cause your account to be banned." ---- found at the bottom of EVERY page under "Privacy statement" or "Terms of service".

Please stay on thread subject, thank you. Gary
 
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#23 ·
I suspect it is a code requirement there. Why else would he use exclusively use something so more expensive than nails??
Mike has explained many times that you are allowed to do things better than minimum code. Code is not normally the best way to build. Code simply defines that anything less is so bad that it is illegal. I never noticed that screws is all he uses, but I would tend to agree that they will hold better than nails
 
#12 ·
dvdswan said:
I think its his philosophy, "do it right the 1st time". he likes to do things better so they last longer too. that would be my guess, if you have a squeaky floor because nails have come loose, you screw it down. just my .02.:whistling2:
Using nails is the right way to do it when framing. Who says using screws is the right way and lasts longer....Mike Holmes? Yes screwing decks down is a better job ...but not for framing.
 
#14 ·
Using nails is the right way to do it when framing. Who says using screws is the right way and lasts longer....Mike Holmes? Yes screwing decks down is a better job ...but not for framing.
well I am by no means an expert in construction, did it 20 yrs ago to get through school. I would think a screw would hold better, but what do I know. lol

and Joe, I would guess from your knowledge you have done this a few yrs so you certainly know better than I do.
 
#24 ·
bbo said:
I wonder if mh screws shingles on?
Bwahahaha. I have seen him nail them on. Well not him, but the people working for him whom he takes credit for.

I love all of the Holmes shows and have one of his books so I was very curious where this thread was going to go.
I will say, I don't take his word as the end all be all and recognize a show edits out a ton of important info. I don't necessarily follow what he says brand wise (I prefer research specific to my area and situation) but I do love his whole "do it right the 1st time philosophy.

Although he would hate this forum. His book has very little how to do it yourself information. It is all how to choose a contractor and picking materials. :D
 
#25 ·
I wish I could find it again, but I recently read an article that said the companies that write the code books use a safety factor, (roughly), about 4 times the minimum really needed. Seeing many old New England houses built with smaller and longer material, that have stood for hundreds of years, I may agree somewhat. I have never seen wind, even hurricanes blow the studs off the shoe, only laying flat still attached. Maybe it's the rafters that should be screwed on. Ask Mike.
 
#26 ·
If we look at traditional framing.....I'm hard pressed to see where shear strength of the fastner (screw or nail) is a major concern. I would estimate that 90% of the fastning is intended to stick one item to another.....i.e., we nail roof sheathing down against the rafters (little to no shear here)....we nail jack studs to king studs (no shear there).....we nail top plates to studs...(very little shear there....

In fact....if I have a stud that is in the wrong place...it's not very hard to bang it out....the nails just bend and pull out....but to do the same thing with screws? It's going to be carnaige on that stud.

Based on my experience with wood working (as in cabinets and furnature), yea, screws are much better than nails. Nails are just a lot cheaper and quicker.
 
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