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Old 08-08-2012, 08:41 AM   #61
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A Mike Holmes question


Mike Holmes does alot of stuff that is "weird" in the industry...The only people I know that thinks he knows it ALL are people who don't know much about construction...

I'd bet he's either sponsored by the screw manufacturer or the air compressors and gun bypass mess with their audio systems too much...
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Old 08-08-2012, 10:43 AM   #62
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A Mike Holmes question


well, as for myself, a new homeowner and DIYer, I enjoy watching the show to gain knowledge and learn what signs to look for for problem areas. the same reason I watched "This Old House" years ago with Bob Vila, and now "Ask this Old House", I know they are not the same show but they give info on what to look for signs of trouble. As far as the nail/screw debate, I've always know that the screw is more labor and cost for a job, common sense there.

as far as why MH uses screws in any framing, I don't know. as far as the show is I've seen them use finish nailers, jack hammers, and other tools that are loud and have seen power cords and air hoses on the show. plus cameras, mics and recording equipment have a crap load more cords than any crew of construction workers. they just choose the shots they want to use for the show. maybe he does have stock or is sponsored by a screw company.
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Old 08-08-2012, 11:55 AM   #63
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A Mike Holmes question


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Originally Posted by robertcdf View Post
I know for me personally you are incorrect sir, I spend a couple days a week doing designs and bids in the office so I'm right in front of the computer while my employees do the work, just because someone has a trade based construction company, does not mean THEY have to be the ones completing the work. Some of us don't want the business to own us, we'd rather own the business.
When was the last time you saw a Walton (family of wal-mart) running a cash register at wal-mart?
Robert....I applogize.....my post is somewhat out of line....and this is not the place for it.....
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Old 08-08-2012, 12:09 PM   #64
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A Mike Holmes question


to quote the famous American Rodney King, "Can't we all just get along?"
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Old 08-09-2012, 10:33 PM   #65
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A Mike Holmes question


Just out of curosity...

I've only noticed them screwing framing when they are framing a wall in place. By doing so the studs are toe-screwed into the plates.

How would a fastener fail from shear at such an angle?

Wouldn't the force have to come from a very un-natural direction?
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Old 08-09-2012, 11:46 PM   #66
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A Mike Holmes question


He said in one of his episodes that he prefers them over nails because.....screws don't move and nails may back out over time.
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Old 08-10-2012, 02:18 AM   #67
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A Mike Holmes question


Wat he is doing is screwing it in place first then nailing it so 1 it holds better n 2 if the sheer force snaps the screws that's where the nails come in play so nothing falls apart
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Old 08-17-2012, 08:28 PM   #68
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A Mike Holmes question


Good lord this thread is ridiculous.

The industry is absolutely riddled with "we do it that way because it's always been done that way." The building industry is not famous for quality, it's famous for cutting margins, getting things built faster and cheaper, and razor thin margins in a cutthroat environment filled with cheap labor.

Nails are rarely better than nails, although obviously nails are often more practical (on trim, for example, and roofing). Some screws are weak (e.g. drywall screws), but some of the newer structural screws are super strong. Simpson screws, for example are stronger than the equivalent nails they replace.

Screws also have the advantage that they can be taken out easily without damaging anything.

Of course nails are usually cheaper and faster than screws, which is the main reason they're used - don't kid yourself. But the reason that nails are used is certainly not that "hey a lot of houses built with nails are still standing." That has nothing at all to do with which is better.
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Old 08-17-2012, 08:57 PM   #69
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A Mike Holmes question


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Good lord this thread is ridiculous.

The industry is absolutely riddled with "we do it that way because it's always been done that way." The building industry is not famous for quality, it's famous for cutting margins, getting things built faster and cheaper, and razor thin margins in a cutthroat environment filled with cheap labor.

Nails are rarely better than nails, although obviously nails are often more practical (on trim, for example, and roofing). Some screws are weak (e.g. drywall screws), but some of the newer structural screws are super strong. Simpson screws, for example are stronger than the equivalent nails they replace.

Screws also have the advantage that they can be taken out easily without damaging anything.

Of course nails are usually cheaper and faster than screws, which is the main reason they're used - don't kid yourself. But the reason that nails are used is certainly not that "hey a lot of houses built with nails are still standing." That has nothing at all to do with which is better.
While the STRUCTURAL screws may be better (I'm not debating that, I agree) the morons who work at the box stores are too stupid to know that drywall and deck screws CANNOT be used in place of nails in structural applications.

You want to know why a lot of "cheap" "crappy" work goes on? Its the homeowners fault many times! I can't count the number of times I've heard "Wow, you're the highest, you know billy bob smells like booze drives a beat up truck and has no insurance was 30% lower than you!" Hmmm... I wonder why...? I guarantee there are guys in every industry, in every market, that do things above the board (and still follow code, unlike deck screws in simpson hardware mike holmes) but lots don't or won't pay their rates OR they don't even know how to find them, here is a hint... They probably don't advertise much, they certainly don't have the largest yellow page ad, but they do top notch work and it speaks for itself.

Not trying to toot my own horn but we do high end custom decks (typical deck is $30,000+). In the area we prefer to work we've done 13 projects (1 more signed for 2 months from now, and 2 more considering, so potentially 16) in a 2 street radius of 125 homes. That is +10% of the homes on those 2 streets, that's not an easy task to do when selling something that costs as much as a car. I do minimal advertising and I'm not even sure that it's effective, because every time we get a call on those streets its "So and so referred you, or we saw you on that house on the corner" Trust me this would not be happening if we did things half ass and tried to screw everyone over.
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Old 08-17-2012, 09:00 PM   #70
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A Mike Holmes question


I was recently pulling 30 penny nails from some salvage lumber. Those were the days no doubt, screws for building with were but a blip in the horizon at that point in time. Just a few flat head screws in the door knobs and furniture...
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Old 08-17-2012, 10:34 PM   #71
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A Mike Holmes question


Holmes is a remodeler, a contractor who does repairs. He's NOT a framer. Framers couldn't get a job if they used screws because of both the cost and 3 X the labor time...who would pay for that? But in defense of screws, when you are working along side of finished walls and in place structures, screws won't bang anything out of place or crack walls. Everyone here has used both. When the situation calls for it I do as well. M. Holmes thinks that the screws are appropriate for his situation(s). So why is that such a big deal? Let him do what he wants and if it's against code call him on it. There is obviously some differences in the Canadian and US codes. Look at those sideways electrical panels that are installed 9 out of 10 times. M Holmes seems to do overkill in most cases....wouldn't everyone want a contractor who thought that way rather than just "good enough?" And I agree with Ddawg for the most part. Busy contractors don't spend much time in chat rooms...they are either working or looking for the next job. (at least around here)
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Old 08-17-2012, 11:37 PM   #72
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A Mike Holmes question


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...wouldn't everyone want a contractor who thought that way rather than just "good enough?"
Are you willing to pay the 3x labor and the higher material costs? That doesn't come free.

I come here to educate people because there are people like mh who spread misinformation.

I also come here because the links at the bottom of my signature supply link juice for my website, everytime I post on a relevant topic it helps my web presence. Web presence sells me jobs, so while you're thinking I'm wasting time, I'm actually selling projects.
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Old 08-18-2012, 07:29 AM   #73
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A Mike Holmes question


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You want to know why a lot of "cheap" "crappy" work goes on? Its the homeowners fault many times!
That is true. It's funny how many times you hear things like "The guys at Best Buy are so stupid, I can't believe he did blah blah blah." But guess where they end up buying their stuff? It's all about price.

But it's all a mystery to them. Home improvement/construction etc. is basically a big black hole. They literally have no reliable information to go on other than price. And I'm not saying it's easy for them to gain knowledge either, with 10 different people telling them 10 different things.
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Old 08-18-2012, 09:20 PM   #74
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A Mike Holmes question


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Busy contractors don't spend much time in chat rooms...they are either working or looking for the next job. (at least around here)
Busy contractor doesn't mean good contractor. Usually it means someone who's been doing the same thing forever because "that's just the way it's always been done, and that's just the way I learned it". Busy contractors rarely spend much time learning new techniques or new technology.
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Old 08-18-2012, 11:58 PM   #75
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A Mike Holmes question


Posts have been removed for breaking the forum rule; "Users shall treat each other with respect at all times on DIYChatroom.com. Name calling, personal attacks, or other inappropriate behavior will not be allowed and may cause your account to be banned." ---- found at the bottom of EVERY page under "Privacy statement" or "Terms of service".

Please stay on thread subject, thank you. Gary
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