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Old 04-07-2012, 01:03 PM   #1
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Looking how they framed the ceiling of my shed I am wondering if it would be okay to remove the 2x6 cross beams (there are 5 all together) so I can build a loft that's flush against the walls instead of hitting the trusses and leaving a gap down both sides. The first picture is my shed and the second is a shed at home depot with similar framing. I could do what home depot did at the tops of the trusses every other or every 3rd truss.

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While we are at is this a secure way to build a work bench? It's just 2x4s nailed to the studs to form a frame of the bench, a piece of plywood on top, and that 2x4 cut at a 45degree angle nailed to the stud and the front center of the bench. Doesn't look like it can hold much weight on the sides to me but I like how open it is underneath.

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Last edited by nikeman; 04-07-2012 at 01:14 PM.
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Old 04-07-2012, 01:17 PM   #2
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No, because they are there to keep the roof from spreading.

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Old 04-07-2012, 01:19 PM   #3
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No, because they are there to keep the roof from spreading.
Aren't the shorter beams on the home depot shed doing the same thing just up higher and more out of the way?
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Old 04-07-2012, 02:09 PM   #4
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Nikeman, this topic has been discussed repeatedly on this forum, do a search for collar ties for more information. A collar tie is a board connected between rafters (you have rafters by the way, not trusses) approximately 1/3 of the way from the top of the rafter to the floor, which is the way the Home Depot people did it. The purpose of a collar tie is to equalize the uplift pressure on the opposite roof sides during high wind events. A collar tie is NOT intended to prevent spreading of the walls, and it will not function that way.

Typically the walls are tied together by the floor joists, assuming the floor joists are perpendicular to the walls. When the floor joists are parallel to the walls, boards called rafter ties are installed between the walls to hold the walls plumb. Collar ties are generally required when rafters are used, in addition to the rafter ties (or floor joists). In your case you do not have floor joists, but you have rafter ties, which cannot be removed. The rafter ties cannot be replaced with collar ties, which will not prevent spreading.

If you want to get rid of the rafter ties, there are several options, all of which require additional framing. One choice is to install a ridge beam, which is typically a large beam supported on either end, sometimes in the middle as well, by posts. The ridge beam supports the rafters, and eliminates wall thrust. You can also install roof trusses, which also exert no thrust load on the walls (recall you have rafters, not trusses). There are a few other options which are less commonly used, and I will not detail them. Either the ridge beam or roof trusses will work, however they are relatively costly, and labor intensive to install.

I cannot comment on the lack of rafter ties in the Home Depot case, the photo does not show the location where the rafter ties or floor joists would be located, however rest assured they are necessary when common rafters are used to support the roof.
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Old 04-07-2012, 02:20 PM   #5
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Thanks! That's very helpful. My floor joists run in the same direction as those cross beams. The picture of my shed shows the 16' length so the beams go front to back or across the 12' sides as do the floor joists if that makes since. I do not want to do any major changes so I will leave it as is and cut slots in the plywood where it meets the 2x4s on each side of the ceiling. Also the home depot shed is a 2 story shed so I was on the second floor to see the ceiling framing and therefore the 2nd floor's floor framing is acting to keep the roof from spreading I'm sure.

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Old 04-07-2012, 04:02 PM   #6
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the sheds at home depot are under built and overpriced.. their typically nothing more than 2x3's 24" o.c... ive said it before... "i can fart in the direction of one of those and it will knock em down"


but daniel is right about the difference between collar ties and ceiling joists. you can build a much stronger shed for roughly the same cost as the junk ones at the big box stores
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Old 04-07-2012, 04:30 PM   #7
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What about the workbench? I have a shed already and it was custom built for actually less then the same size at hd. I was turned off by the hd/lowes sheds by the floors. It looked like they use particle board for the flooring and you have to pay more for the real plywood or "tough floors".

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Old 04-07-2012, 05:20 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikeman View Post
What about the workbench? I have a shed already and it was custom built for actually less then the same size at hd. I was turned off by the hd/lowes sheds by the floors. It looked like they use particle board for the flooring and you have to pay more for the real plywood or "tough floors".
It's almost certainly OSB (which some people mistakenly call "particle board" because it's made of little bits of wood). Studies have shown the design strength of OSB and plywood are near identical. A good builder will use plywood (and pay more) because plywood handles moisture better, which is a big concern when a framed structure is exposed to the elements for weeks before getting its skin.

What does make a big difference is the thickness of the subfloor, which has to be considered in conjunction with the joist spacing. For 16" spaced joists, you need a minimum of 7/16" OSB or plywood. For 24" you need at least 3/4".

The thing to watch about the box store sheds is that the low end ones use 2x3 instead of 2x4. Remember; you usually get what you pay for. They also typically have little or no eaves, which means the walls and bottom of the shed are more exposed to the elements. That means more wear on the paint and possibly a greater chance or rain penetration down the road.

Regarding the bench. The ends of it are almost certainly fastened to the wall studs, so it's probably stronger than you think it is. Of course, it all depends on what you plan on putting on the bench--a few hand tools, or 80lb bags of concrete mix? If you have any concerns about strength, put two more braces in. Of course, that sacrifices some of the storage potential under the bench.
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Old 04-07-2012, 05:29 PM   #9
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One more thing. I'm not certain, as the HD shed pic is not far back enough, but I think that's a gable roof. You'll often see collar ties in that kind of roof (unless, as Daniel pointed out, a ridge beam is used instead of a ridge board). Your shed is for sure a gambrel roof. It's a pretty shallow one, which is why you don't have any collar ties.
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Old 04-07-2012, 08:57 PM   #10
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It looks like it's at least 3' above the walls in the middle.
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Old 04-07-2012, 10:18 PM   #11
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It looks like it's at least 3' above the walls in the middle.
Gambrel roofs are often as tall, and sometimes taller, than the rooms they sit above. Check this one out http://www.barnplans.com/gambrelroof.php

3' is nothing :-)

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