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Old 05-21-2012, 08:00 PM   #1
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Load bearing wall or not?


Howdy,

I am struggling to determine if the wall in the photos below is load bearing. If you look at the photos, I have added comments that might give someone with more experience than me sufficient info to determine whether the wall can be removed (entirely or at least partially). The joists are 2x10s. The steel I-beam is 7.875in high and 4in wide, if that has any significance. Thanks for looking!
Attached Thumbnails
Load bearing wall or not?-1.-upstairs-view.jpg   Load bearing wall or not?-2.-view-redirected-basement-stairs.jpg   Load bearing wall or not?-3.-view-old-stairway-path.jpg   Load bearing wall or not?-4.-view-joists-under-stairs.jpg   Load bearing wall or not?-5.-joist-header-does-not-rest-i-beam.jpg  

Load bearing wall or not?-6.-wall-seen-wallboard-side-under-2nd-floor-stairs.jpg  

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Old 05-21-2012, 08:01 PM   #2
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Load bearing wall or not?


Here are a few more photos...
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Load bearing wall or not?-7.-joist-header-clearance.jpg   Load bearing wall or not?-8.-no-void-between-joist-1-top-plate.jpg   Load bearing wall or not?-9.-no-void-under-joist-2.jpg   Load bearing wall or not?-10.-joist-3-clearance-above-top-plate-copy.jpg   Load bearing wall or not?-11.-section-between-joist-2-3.jpg  


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Old 05-21-2012, 08:03 PM   #3
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Load bearing wall or not?


If you are talking about that wall in the basement in pictures 3-6 in the first post, it is just cosmetic. That is a pretty new home, you should be able to contact the builder to get the set of blueprints, or contact the city planning office, and they should have a set on file.
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Old 05-21-2012, 10:01 PM   #4
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Load bearing wall or not?


There is no doubt that's a load bearing wall. The ends of those joists rest on it, or at least they're supposed to rest on it. Sure, as you progress to the right (in increasing joist numbers), the joists take on more of a cantilevered effect and as the cantilever distance decreases, the joists rely less on the wall to support their ends.

What you're calling a "joist header" is really just a rim joist.

What you have here is an iffy situation. If that was my home, I think I would remove the wall if I could do the following

(a) sister in a second 2x10 to make a real header (this would require shortening the joists).
(b) install joist brackets, at least for joists #1 and #2 (this might be tricky, because of the angle)
(c) put another stud at the extreme left, to better support that end of the header
(d) reinforce (with Simpson hardware) the connection between the right end of the header and the element it ties into

Again, this is all iffy, because of the angles. It's barely a load bearing wall on the right end, but definitely one on the left end. This explains why you can slip paper under the right joists.

Last edited by cortell; 05-21-2012 at 10:03 PM.
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Old 05-22-2012, 09:59 AM   #5
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Load bearing wall or not?


Thanks guys for the comments, I appreciate them.

The good news is that the angles are at 45 degrees, and I found some 45 degree joist hangers here:

http://www.strongtie.com/products/co...-HSUR-HSUL.asp

However, I don't know how I would cut and shorten the joists so that I could sister in another 2x10, because the area around the joist ends is certainly confined. Any thoughts on what tool(s) and approach to use for this?

Also, would it be sufficient to use a double joist hanger on the right hand side to tie the joist header (now two 2x10s sistered together) to the joist header that rests on the steel I-beam (see the fifth (second to last) photo from my first post). Here's a link to such a double joist hanger (HUS210-2):

http://www.amazon.com/Simpson-Strong.../dp/B001GG6ICQ

Thoughts?

Glenn

Last edited by voodoochile; 05-22-2012 at 10:16 AM.
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Old 05-22-2012, 10:21 AM   #6
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Load bearing wall or not?


the wall plate is not doubled there and the joists land willy nilly( not over top of studs) ( no hangers to the rim/band board etc..) so that really would not be considered a full bearing wall imo. depending on how far back the joists go past the steel beam the other way (not shown in pic) will determine how much cantilever strength there is in the joists.
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Old 05-22-2012, 11:09 AM   #7
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Load bearing wall or not?


Here's a photo of the joists heading in the other direction. They extend just over 8 feet (98 inches) from the steel I-beam to the foundation on the other side.
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Old 05-22-2012, 01:13 PM   #8
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Load bearing wall or not?


Quote:
However, I don't know how I would cut and shorten the joists so that I could sister in another 2x10, because the area around the joist ends is certainly confined. Any thoughts on what tool(s) and approach to use for this?
I would try using both a jigsaw and a reciprocating saw, or just a reciprocating saw. As you get closer to the subfloor, you'll have to be careful, and maybe even creative. Maybe knock off what you've cut then use a sharp chisel on the last bit.

Quote:
Also, would it be sufficient to use a double joist hanger on the right hand side to tie the joist header (now two 2x10s sistered together) to the joist header that rests on the steel I-beam (see the fifth (second to last) photo from my first post). Here's a link to such a double joist hanger (HUS210-2):
That's what I would use, assuming you're dealing with a 90 degree connection there. I wasn't certain looking at the pic.
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Old 05-22-2012, 10:13 PM   #9
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Load bearing wall or not?


from the pics it looks like maybe there is a way that you could cut a full wall length header into the wall and take the wall underneath away.

At the top of the wall the top plate ends against the i beam, possibly rest the full length header against underside of wall top plate and extend the header over and set it on the lip of the i beam( ha ha, no really, "did he just say that").
Underneath of the new header add a few studs at the far end left of the i beam.

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