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Old 01-20-2012, 09:49 AM   #1
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Load Bearing Wall HELP............


I'm sure this topic has been covered over and over but I've tried to search for an answer to my question without any luck.

I am in the process of updating my kitchen and plan on removing a wall. The wall separates the two sides of the kitchen.

I've already removed the plaster and the wood lathe. So here is what I have: I have close to a 9' span of wall I want to remove and beam. There is a cast iron dump pipe coming though the existing double 2x4's which are notched, two small 3/4" steam radiator pipes notched into that as well.

I plan on having my plumber move all of those but how do I get them out of the way of the new beam? Also, what size beam am I going to need? Will the new beam hang out of the ceiling area?


Last edited by oh'mike; 01-20-2012 at 10:10 AM. Reason: added spaces
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Old 01-20-2012, 09:56 AM   #2
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Load Bearing Wall HELP............


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Originally Posted by BraniksPainting View Post
There is a cast iron dump pipe coming though ...
two small 3/4" steam radiator pipes as well.

I plan on having my plumber move all of those...
By magic?
Ask your plumber first about what is NEEDED...
then plan to make the beam/opening work around that.

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Old 01-20-2012, 09:59 AM   #3
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Load Bearing Wall HELP............


Its very important to take my message seriously on this topic.

Contact a Structural engineer to visit your home and happily pay them for a report of "exactly" how it needs to be done, header placement, additional support walls and posts underneath etc...

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Old 01-20-2012, 10:00 AM   #4
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Load Bearing Wall HELP............


Here is a pic. To the left of the dump (waste) pipe is a stud but behind the stud is 6" of space. Note how the dump pipe is notched out....WTF. This is how they did it when the house was originally built. I can't believe it's not cracked. There's 1" x 4" of a header holding up the exterior wall. There is no room above the near ceiling. Where the kitchen light is...bathroom is above
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Load Bearing Wall HELP............-kitchen-remodel-001.jpg  

Last edited by BraniksPainting; 01-20-2012 at 10:11 AM.
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Old 01-20-2012, 10:23 AM   #5
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Load Bearing Wall HELP............


That's a double top plate--not a beam---studs should be under the upstairs floor joists if the framing is done correctly---making that notch no big deal and a standard common practice.

Your lack of knowledge in the structure of a house makes me agree with tech Dawg---
Hire an engineer to spec out girder size--support post and point load transfer to the foundation.
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Old 01-20-2012, 10:38 AM   #6
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Load Bearing Wall HELP............


Quote:
Originally Posted by oh'mike View Post
That's a double top plate--not a beam---studs should be under the upstairs floor joists if the framing is done correctly---making that notch no big deal and a standard common practice.

Your lack of knowledge in the structure of a house makes me agree with tech Dawg---
Hire an engineer to spec out girder size--support post and point load transfer to the foundation.

Agreed.

Looks like this is a load bearing wall with the double plate offering some evidence of this, and in that regard, the doorway opening on the right side of the pic isn't headered correctly.
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Old 01-20-2012, 11:10 AM   #7
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Load Bearing Wall HELP............


Quote:
Originally Posted by oh'mike View Post
That's a double top plate--not a beam---studs should be under the upstairs floor joists if the framing is done correctly---making that notch no big deal and a standard common practice.

Your lack of knowledge in the structure of a house makes me agree with tech Dawg---
Hire an engineer to spec out girder size--support post and point load transfer to the foundation.
I may not know the terminology of what certain thing are called but that is why I'm here. I also understand that "may" have been common practice back in the day but by today's standards, it's not. Also, if you read my post correctly, I plan on removing what is shown and beaming it. I never called the top plate a beam.
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Old 01-20-2012, 11:13 AM   #8
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Load Bearing Wall HELP............


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Originally Posted by psilva8 View Post
Agreed.

Looks like this is a load bearing wall with the double plate offering some evidence of this, and in that regard, the doorway opening on the right side of the pic isn't headered correctly.
I know this is a load bearing wall as it is an outside wall. Doesn't matter how the header looks, it will be removed and there will not be any wall there.
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Old 01-20-2012, 11:18 AM   #9
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Load Bearing Wall HELP............


Quote:
Originally Posted by BraniksPainting
I may not know the terminology of what certain thing are called but that is why I'm here. I also understand that "may" have been common practice back in the day but by today's standards, it's not. Also, if you read my post correctly, I plan on removing what is shown and beaming it. I never called the top plate a beam.
I don't think Mike was critisizing you or disregarding any knowledge that you may have...
As an example, I know how to assess these situations however, if a client calls for this type of work, I openly make it mandatory for them to provide a report from a Structural Engineer.
Playing with fire and water is one thing but collapsing your house is another. There is so many variables that come into play...

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Old 01-20-2012, 11:18 AM   #10
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Load Bearing Wall HELP............


Sorry I didn't mean to offed---I am also confused---you call that an outside wall,yet the wall in the picture is inside the house---sorry.

As to the plumbing stack---I still cut out the top plates for plumbing and air ducts--if framed correctly no harm is done---
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Old 01-20-2012, 11:27 AM   #11
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Load Bearing Wall HELP............


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tech Dawg View Post
I don't think Mike was critisizing you or disregarding any knowledge that you may have...
As an example, I know how to assess these situations however, if a client calls for this type of work, I openly make it mandatory for them to provide a report from a Structural Engineer.
Playing with fire and water is one thing but collapsing your house is another. There is so many variables that come into play...

Todd
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I apologize and hope Mike doesn't think I took his post personal. Though sometimes when you sign onto a new forum some people tend to think it's open season on the Newbie.

Anyway, getting to the issue at hand. I respect what you are telling me to do as far as the S/E is concerned however I do feel this is a rather simple task though it will consist of some research. I don't plan on jumping right into this without answers. I know for sure I need install a support column in the basement directly under the bearing studs that support the beam. What I am a bit confused about is how the beam will not be affected with the dump (waste) pipe coming through that area. I guess my plumber will better assess that situation. The 3/4" steam pipes I don't believe will be an issue at all. The other thing that concerns me is, will I have a beam separating my ceilings? I believe I will!
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Old 01-20-2012, 11:28 AM   #12
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Load Bearing Wall HELP............


Quote:
Originally Posted by BraniksPainting View Post
I know this is a load bearing wall as it is an outside wall.
Maybe it used to be an outside wall?
Before the porch was enclosed to make the new kitchen?

Quote:
Doesn't matter how the header looks (now)...
Actually it does. Maybe not critical... but it implies things.

Quote:
it will be removed and there will not be any wall there.
Wanna bet? I've got a case of (cheap) beer that says the soil stack and probably the radiator pipe remain where they are... and at the other end a similar portion of wall will remain (or be rebuilt)...
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Old 01-20-2012, 11:35 AM   #13
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Load Bearing Wall HELP............


Quote:
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Sorry I didn't mean to offed---I am also confused---you call that an outside wall,yet the wall in the picture is inside the house---sorry.

As to the plumbing stack---I still cut out the top plates for plumbing and air ducts--if framed correctly no harm is done---
I didn't mean to seem offended. My post just came out as harsh. No offense taken.

The spot where I was standing when I took the picture is one part of my kitchen. It does not have a floor above it. Where as the other part of my kitchen where the light is, is the interior part of the house. It has a floor above it (my bathroom).

Now, here is where I am a bit confused. If I beam this wall, do I still need the top plates? I am under the impression from pictures that I've seen that I don't.
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Old 01-20-2012, 11:41 AM   #14
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Load Bearing Wall HELP............


Quote:
Originally Posted by TarheelTerp View Post
Maybe it used to be an outside wall?
Before the porch was enclosed to make the new kitchen?

Actually it does. Maybe not critical... but it implies things.

Wanna bet? I've got a case of (cheap) beer that says the soil stack and probably the radiator pipe remain where they are... and at the other end a similar portion of wall will remain (or be rebuilt)...
That wall was never an outside wall and never a porch. I'm absolutely certain of that.
If you were betting good beer I'd bet ya but I can tell you with 100% certainty that, that wall will not be there and those pipes will not be either. LOL. LOL.
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Old 01-20-2012, 12:14 PM   #15
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Load Bearing Wall HELP............


Got you now---that wall carries an out side wall above it----heavy load---

No plates needed on top of your new beam---however the supports for the beam--must have the load transferred to the foundation---this should not be to difficult--

That is what is called a point load---half the weight of the beam and load concentrated at one point.

Like the legs on a table---the load on the table is concentrated to the four feet--set the table on concrete and you're good--set the table on the grass (floor framing) and it will eventually sink.

To size your new beam you need to calculate the load of the second floor and wall setting on the old wall

once you have that number and the length of the opening---a span chart will give you the beam type and size needed.

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