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Is this a load bearing wall?

10K views 27 replies 9 participants last post by  JoJo-Arch 
#1 ·
I am curious if anyone can tell me if the 2 walls in these photos are load bearing. yes i realize it may be hard to tell, pls do your best.

We would like to remove the 2 walls between the living room and kitchen.

#1 – the wall in front of the sink [far wall] and to the left of it [where fridge is]

#2 – the right wall, behind the cabinet. [between the kitchen and living room], adn to the right of it
 
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#2 ·
Judging by the width of the living rooms, the probability of the walls being load bearing is high. What shape is the roof? This may also rely on these walls for support. Can you get up the manhole and look into the ceiling space? Do the walls meet at a corner? More info please. Photos inside ceiling space if possible would assist 100%. These would show what is sitting on the wall plate.

Cheers.
 
#3 · (Edited)
The pictures are actually from the main floor of the townhouse. There is an upper floor [can post pics if you like not sure that will help?].

What shape is the roof?
The roof is a triangle shape , sorry I'm not there so don't have pictures of the ceiling space.

Do the walls meet at a corner?
The walls meet the other units that are on its opposite sides.

My main concern is if we could take down the walls. We want to redo the kitchen then open up that entire are to make a large open living space.

Would it be possible to put a support beam across to support the load, or is that a little far fetched?

here is a very quick draft of the place.
 
#4 ·
to be honest, those photos dont really give me any sense of what your house layout is.. there just photos of a kitchen and dining room from my perspective..

can you draw up a floor plan/layout of what you have to help clarify.. ive torn out plenty of bearing walls and installed beams to replace them... but in order to figure things out i need to see what the layout of the house is and a better look at the floor framing above/below
 
#12 ·
I'm totally confused. You're first sketch plan bears no resemblance to the more accurate floor plans posted later. What walls are we talking about?. The only wall I can see dividing the kitchen and living space is the wall between the foyer and kitchen. If this is the wall, I wouldn't remove it, as you want some privacy from someone at the entry from the kitchen. Sorry, I've just realized the plan I'm talking about is next door unit. Haven't you got a similar plan of your unit that shows what's above the ground floor?
 
#15 ·
The topic of "is this a load bearing wall" seems to be a favorite on this forum. Do a search, you will see dozens of posts. I am not going to repeat my previous posts here. Suffice it to say that a load bearing wall is one that bears more than its own dead weight. There are two accepted ways to determine if a wall is load bearing. One way is if you have accurate floor plans, you can trace all the loads downward to the wall to calculate how much load it bears. Option two is to open up the space above the wall to see what bears on the wall.

Oh yes, there is a third technique that has been suggested, namely removing the wall to see if the house falls down. Bad plan. Since you apparently do not have accurate floor plans, you are going to have to look above the wall, either with a flexible wand camera (very cool, a mini tv camera on the end of a flexible wand), or more invasive procedures.

As to replacing the wall with a beam, that can almost always be done, the issue is usually one of cost. Cost depends on ease of construction and the required size of the beam, which depends on the load and the span.
 
#19 ·
Which way do the joists run?
What are the joist sizes?
What is the load the joists are carrying?
What is floor made of?
Does this even matter?
From the looks of the floor plan it looks like the neighbors unit is bearing on the wall you want to remove...
If you want to remove that wall you may have a huge issue with liability. It is a TOWNHOUSE.
 
#20 ·
Now it's clear!, Check your top floor plan (where your bedrooms are) and see if there are any walls aligning with your "L" walls or are nearby. In any case, your walls are supporting at least the upper floor floor loads, even if there are no walls on top, and therefore load bearing. You are strongly advised to call in a structural engineer as a beam to replace the walls is required, and depending which way the upper floor joists run, possibly a second beam perpendicular to the first beam. As the beam cannot go on top of the floor joists, it can only go underneath, that is, you will have a dropped bulkhead the depth of the beam plus packing. You also have a second problem that the transverse beam between dining and kitchen will need to be offset about 1'6'' from the transverse wall as the beam has to bear on the nearest support, that is the stairwall and outside/party wall. If the floor joists run the transverse direction, the other beam becomes critical and load bearing, this beam will span from the entry nib and meet the transverse beam perpendicular to it. Sorry, but double storey houses are the most difficult to design so that spaces are open plan as beams are required to carry upper floor loads and roof. You can butt each beam into the other to save head height, using appropriate designed connector plates. As the beams will be around 12'' deep depending on load, you need at least an 8'6'' high ceiling to get 7'6'' head height. The construction process will require proper temporary propping to allow the beams to be placed and the walls removed.
:thumbsup:
Cheers, from Oz
 
#23 ·
So the inspector came in and had a good look. Without getting into the wall he was 90% certain that the load bearing wall was the one that runs parallel with the side of the house. In the basement is a parking garage which the house is built on [concrete]. He said we could either move the load point over to that support, or run a beam from the main entrance into the living room, then another beam across to the side of the unit.

Either option A or option B [srry for the terrible drawings.] i will post more pics at a later date. It also worth mentioning, if the load needs to be moved [figure A] it would cost approx $2000-2500, if not [figure b] the cost would be approx $1500-$2000.

A


B


You said "TOWNHOUSE" I don't care what you think you can do, they (the association) will have the last say in the matter.
The strata [association] has never disallowed any home renovations in the units. In fact there is another suite in the house that is doing exactly what we want to do; remove a load bearing wall and open up the kitchen an living area.

Which way do the joists run?
The struc. engineer said chances are high they run parallel with the adjoining units [left to right]
What are the joist sizes?
No idea without opening up the wall; i remember he said something, but cant remember.
What is the load the joists are carrying?
Right now the upper floor, only one wall, which is the one to the right of the entrance, not at the end of the kitchen.
What is floor made of?
Wood frame, tile on the floor.
Does this even matter?
doubt it.
From the looks of the floor plan it looks like the neighbors unit is bearing on the wall you want to remove...
No its not ... but its still doable.
If you want to remove that wall you may have a huge issue with liability. It is a TOWNHOUSE.
it's currently being done, and with the proper permits and struc. engineer shouldn't be an issue.

Check your top floor plan (where your bedrooms are) and see if there are any walls aligning with your "L" walls
yes there is a wall on top of the lower wall, its the hallway wall.
 
#24 ·
No idea without opening up the wall; i remember he said something, but cant remember.
You can figure it out quite easily - is there a place on the stairway where you can see the upstairs floor and the downstairs ceiling? Take that measurement, and subtract about an inch for drywall and flooring and you'll have a rough estimate of the height of your joists.
 
#25 ·
I would think that to get the permit to do this you would need to submit drawings by your engineer. I would discuss it with him and get drawings done up. Another thing to consider besides the cost to re-frame is what else is in the wall-plumbing or electrical, these things can add to the cost to relocate.
 
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