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Old 12-27-2009, 09:48 PM   #1
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Leak in basement from time to time.


Leaks from time to time, but when it does I end up with alot of water. I know the proper way of doing it by dinging up the outside, but not an option for me right now. I've bought wet/dry Plastic cement. I've had a few people tell me to use this, clean the surface and put some on, then put a small peace of plastic and cover it. They said the reason for plastic is to keep it from drying out?
Part of the problem was where the drain is around the inside of the basement wall was clogged with dirt and stuff which I have now cleaned and it runs a little better now. My basement floor though isn't proper. Its not flat or slopped towards drain. It actually goes towards my furnace and I have to sweep it towards the drain. The floor is different though because I can hear it making funny noise's when I push the water over it like air bubbles.
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Old 12-28-2009, 12:50 AM   #2
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Leak in basement from time to time.


The best solution is to dig outside and fix tar paper / water proofing, and also fix weeping tiles.

A temp solution might be to break up the cement around the walls to make a trench (don't go all the way to the sand!) and then have it drain to a sump pit and install a sump pump. I would not patch the holes until you get around to fixing outside though. The water might back up against the patching and eventually it will all let go at once, and it wont be pretty.
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Old 12-28-2009, 05:43 AM   #3
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Leak in basement from time to time.


unfortunately, i'm not as optimistic as the squirrel but he's up there & i'm in fl on a short bride-approved vacation i'd trench it but stay away from any interior conc reprs - looks like that's in rough condition from yrs of ground wtr acid-attack

ps - tar's NOT elastomeric so don 't use it NOR let it be used.
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Old 12-28-2009, 05:59 AM   #4
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Leak in basement from time to time.



Willow, Thanks for posting the Pics.
Trying to fix water seepage from the inside is like trying to stop a leaking roof from the inside. It may be possible but likely not successful.

One area to look at before you can excavate outside is to see if there is some way to channel surface water, like the water from rain gutters and downspouts AWAY from the house, like 3' or more away. This will not solve the problem but may lessen the flow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by willowgirl View Post
L...... I've bought wet/dry Plastic cement. ........
To attack the problem from the inside rather than the plastic cement, I would buy a a gallon of UGL waterproofer.
http://www.ugl.com/drylokMasonry/mas...er/extreme.php

UGL is available at a builders supply house or a good hardware store.. if you don't know of one in your area, call the manufacturer and ask for a local source.

Let us know, whatever you do, how things work out.
Good Luck,

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Old 12-28-2009, 06:15 AM   #5
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Leak in basement from time to time.


don't worry, willow, as i'm having trouble understanding bob, too,,, on 1 hand he's saying its only ' possible but likely not successful ' & the next paragraph's recommending ' drylock ' type cementitious mtls save your $ - there's NO silver bullet here,,, conversely, its not rocket science, either - just grunt labor, common sense, & knowing water would rather run downhill !

think of your bsmt as the ship's hull below the waterline - might help w/better understanding of the nec fix's

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Old 12-28-2009, 09:08 AM   #6
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Leak in basement from time to time.


I understand about how to do it the proper way outside, but don't have the money to have it done. I just realized it was a real problem within the last few months. When we had a big rain storm. I went in the basement for some reason and went to the other half. Wow it looked like I had a broken pipe the water was flowing across my floor so fast. I new there was no way I would be able to keep up with the flow by sweeping it to drain.

I could see where it was coming out, so I grabbed a tarp few pieces of wood and outside I went. I leaned the tarp out from the house with some wood under it to slant it out away from the house, which made a huge difference. Even with that I was up till 7am sweeping water, every hour or so to keep up with it and make sure it didn't flood my furnace.

So I now have the tarp screwed down the side of my house to re direct the water. I've tried to get gutters put up but everyone was fully booked for this year and not taking on more jobs. One place was supposed to come do it and never showed.

It looks like some tried something from the inside and maybe hammered out old floor on that side and put another one down which is part of the problem. They didn't sloop it right so it will start to go that way but then there's a bump up and it holds the water back. When I sweep the water over it i can hear it hissing and see that air is trying to escape so think they didn't mix it correct.
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Old 12-28-2009, 11:06 AM   #7
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Leak in basement from time to time.


The reason why your basement is leaking: the ground outside is over saturated with water. That generates hydrostatic pressure which pushes the water against your foundation walls.

Your basement is a box of porous concrete buried in wet dirt. As long as that soil is over saturated, water will find its way into the basement.

That said, there is only way to fix it: to provide adequate drainage in order to keep that soil around the foundation as dry as possible. Period.

No coating, painting, plugging the cracks or similar will do the trick. They do nothing to relieve the hydrostatic pressure. Just create a barrier to trap water behind. Give it enough pressure and time, the vast majority will fail.

There are a few steps you can take to considerably improve conditions in your basement
- Keep gutter clean or install them if you don't have any
- Extend downspouts to discharge as far away from the foundation as possible
- Grade the terrain as to slope away from the foundation walls.
- Avoid plants that need constant watering from being kept too close from the house, as well as garden hoses and sprinklers.

With that taken care of, you will need to provide adequate foundation drainage and that means installing a functioning drain tile system. There are two ways of doing that:

1- By digging out the foundation walls and installing a new french drain. This means excavating the backyard, removing porches, decks and other features and installing perforated pipes by the footing. The problem with these conventional french drains, besides the messy installation: they are not serviceable and they are know to clog, fail and collapse overtime. Chances are, if your house is not too old, that you do have a french drain, that is obviously no longer working.

2 - By installing an interior drain tile, along the perimeter of the basement walls. (Not to be confused with simple baseboard systems that simply collect the water seeping through the leaks). These tiles are installed by hack hammering a few inches of the concrete slab, along the internal perimeter of the basement walls and placing the tiles over a bed of gravel and then patching the slab back up. These tiles are linked to a sump pump system. They do exactly the same thing that conventional french drains do. They collect the ground water, diverting it to a sump pump,thus relieving the hydrostatic pressure.
Plus they also collect any water coming into the basement from any source, which includes plumbing leaks, leaky water heater tanks or washing machine hoses, etc.
But the best thing about them is that they are serviceable throughout the years. Which is why good companies back them up with a Lifetime Transferable Warranty.

Internal drainage systems have been used with success for over two decades and they are definitely a solution worth considering for existing homes.

I hope this vast explanation helped shed some light on the subject

Basement Troubleshooting Guide
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Old 12-28-2009, 11:52 AM   #8
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Leak in basement from time to time.


i realize this is not a solution but i understand your financial situation, is it possible to cut some channels in your floor to direct the water to your drain? a skill saw with a good concrete wet blade would probably do what you need
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Old 12-29-2009, 08:17 AM   #9
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Leak in basement from time to time.


Everyone is missing a very important piece here, she said "i'm trying to have gutters put up.."

she has no gutters??? all the other talk about digging, coating, painting, slanting whatever whatever should not even enter the mix until gutters are installed on the house and water is angled away from the house.

do that first and give it a year, and THEN re-asses.

you don't opt for surgery until you've tried physical therapy..
you don't go on Lipitor until you've tried to alter your diet.

Get some gutters on the house.. yeah, my ground is saturated too, but its saturated 10 feet away from the foundation..
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Old 12-29-2009, 08:37 AM   #10
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Leak in basement from time to time.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CyFree View Post
The reason why your basement is leaking: the ground outside is over saturated with water. That generates hydrostatic pressure which pushes the water against your foundation walls.

Your basement is a box of porous concrete buried in wet dirt. As long as that soil is over saturated, water will find its way into the basement.

That said, there is only way to fix it: to provide adequate drainage in order to keep that soil around the foundation as dry as possible. Period.

No coating, painting, plugging the cracks or similar will do the trick. They do nothing to relieve the hydrostatic pressure. Just create a barrier to trap water behind. Give it enough pressure and time, the vast majority will fail.

Exactly, the water will travel around the foundation & find a new weak point fairly fast. Or it peels away fairly fast. Either way, it traps water in the concrete wall making it disinegrate faster.

There are a few steps you can take to considerably improve conditions in your basement
- Keep gutter clean or install them if you don't have any
- Extend downspouts to discharge as far away from the foundation as possible
- Grade the terrain as to slope away from the foundation walls.
- Avoid plants that need constant watering from being kept too close from the house, as well as garden hoses and sprinklers.

With that taken care of, you will need to provide adequate foundation drainage and that means installing a functioning drain tile system. There are two ways of doing that:

1- By digging out the foundation walls and installing a new french drain. This means excavating the backyard, removing porches, decks and other features and installing perforated pipes by the footing. The problem with these conventional french drains, besides the messy installation: they are not serviceable and they are know to clog, fail and collapse overtime. Chances are, if your house is not too old, that you do have a french drain, that is obviously no longer working.

Just from my experiences, the odds are low that there is any ext. tile in this foundation by the looks of the wall construction. Fixing from the exterior can be fairly messy, but no definately not as messy as an interior repair IMO.

2 - By installing an interior drain tile, along the perimeter of the basement walls. (Not to be confused with simple baseboard systems that simply collect the water seeping through the leaks). These tiles are installed by hack hammering a few inches of the concrete slab, along the internal perimeter of the basement walls and placing the tiles over a bed of gravel and then patching the slab back up. These tiles are linked to a sump pump system. They do exactly the same thing that conventional french drains do. They collect the ground water, diverting it to a sump pump,thus relieving the hydrostatic pressure.
Plus they also collect any water coming into the basement from any source, which includes plumbing leaks, leaky water heater tanks or washing machine hoses, etc.
But the best thing about them is that they are serviceable throughout the years. Which is why good companies back them up with a Lifetime Transferable Warranty.

Only problem with this situation is the wall can still leak to some degree exactly were it is leaking now. You absolutly have to install some kind of successful retro-fit bleeders to make the int. system successful long term. Usually easier said than done.

Internal drainage systems have been used with success for over two decades and they are definitely a solution worth considering for existing homes.

I hope this vast explanation helped shed some light on the subject

Basement Troubleshooting Guide

Overall, great post! I would still get the gutters on ASAP & adress every last inch of soil at the outside grade next spring/summer before going too deep into more vast repairs.

Last edited by jomama45; 12-29-2009 at 08:40 AM.
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Old 12-29-2009, 06:46 PM   #11
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Leak in basement from time to time.


I did try getting gutters put up, as I think that's a big part of the problem. My roof is really big and think if I can direct the water away it will help about 90%. No one would come do it this year as they were booked up. I was able to get 2 places out . it was a big job because of how high my roof is and it has a funny type of trim that's not easy to attach to.
I was supposed to have siding done and decided to have done all at once but that didn't work for this year financially and because of a hip surgery. So when I called back to try to get just the gutters it was a no go. I attached a tarp down the side of the house and that does help for now but its not nice to look at. Works for me but feel bad for my neighbours that have to see it.
I think over the years of people putting the gravel and dirt in driveway has made a slant towards the house instead of away.

I would like to thank everyone for all the great info. Now I have lots of great info to plan what needs to be done.
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Old 12-29-2009, 08:28 PM   #12
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Leak in basement from time to time.


Gutters will help a lot, but still there is a major issue regardless here that should probably be fixed from outside/under ground. Another somewhat fix is to make sure the ground is slanted away from the house. Gutters + this will reduce a lot of the water going near the wall area. Again these are things that help but are not true fixes. I'd also install a sump pit + pump if you don't have one already. For the walls to look like that sounds like the water table might be through the roof.
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Old 12-30-2009, 07:06 AM   #13
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Leak in basement from time to time.


if you said putting the tarp up improved the issue by 90%, and if you keep directing the water away for several months, i bet it will improve by 95%. I think its great you are considering the ugliness, and your neighbors, it shows you have great pride in your home.

I would suggest to you that you don't even need the tarp to be hung down the entire side of the house. all you need to do is to just have the tarp angle the water away from the house on the bottom 3 feet or so of the house. Its not the water hitting the side of the house, (well that could be a little) but mostly its the runoff from the roof. So just look where the runoff from the roof hits the ground and then just hang enough tarp so it creates a nice "angle" for the water to run AWAY from the house. I bet you only need a "tent" of about 3 feet high to get that water to bounce away.

And when i mean AWAY from the house i mean permanently away. You don't divert it 5 feet away and so it can pool and puddle and work its back to your foundation. If you have to make a "slip and slide" with another tarp on the ground to get it to flow to the low spot of your property then do it.

I GUARANTEE you will see great results in your basement. If it was a water TABLE issue you would see water seeping up from the bottom, not from the sides. You are having water come from the sides while its raining, its so obviously a gutter/runoff issue.
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Old 12-30-2009, 07:32 AM   #14
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Leak in basement from time to time.


let's try to clear up a few things:

you bsmt leaks because water's penetrating that horrible conc,,, IF water's coming UP thru the floor, its likely ' hydrostatic ' pressure trying to seek its own level to even out w/the wtr level just outside your bsmt walls where its collected from rain & can't drain away,,, therefore, it saturates the immediate soil & eventually, if there were enough of it, would encircle the home's foundation as its ALL disturbed soil,,, hydrostatic water doesn't penetrate walls UNLESS there's an immediate path for it - then its a wall leak - not hydrostatic.

surface drainage will help but NOT resolve the issue,,, that water, over the yrs, has left minute waterways - short of a full exterior excavation to redirect it AND waterproof the walls, interior management's the answer.

agree no INTERIOR coat, paint, etc will stop it - its still ' there ' damaging the conc - you just can't see it !

our exterior systems ARE serviceable w/cleanouts & filter cloth,,, most don't so they do plug w/silt !

' tile ' hasn't been used for years by pro's - that's why ads flexible slotted pipe's so popular - 100' lengths of 4" cost only $50 here !

we're installed just about everyone's system incl bsmt tech, b-dry, desert-dry, mid-atlantic, atlantis, nation day - they're all basically the same - allow wtr to run downhill & mechanically discharge the collected drainage.

for all intents & purposes, most ' waterproofers ' YOU see're great salespeople,,, when it comes to getting your hands dirty, the install crews get my nod,,, after all, NO ONE can ' see ' thru the conc til we dig - even me after 37 yrs,,, if you call someone who digs, don't be surprised if that's what they sell !

the ' cove ' system has its place for unipour / monopour foundations/walls !


' water come from the sides while its raining ' only means that,,, disturbed soil's still poorly compacted dirt NOTHING's OBVIOUS to me !
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