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Old 01-10-2009, 03:38 PM   #1
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knotty pine vaulted ceiling


Hello,
We are adding a new sunroom to our home and would like to put knotty pine on the vaulted ceiling. The room is 12WX18long. Ceiling is 15 foot high and walls are 10 foot high.
I was hoping someone could give me some helpful information on installation. We don't want to pay expense of "pre-finished" so we thought we would go to a lumber yard to buy the knotty pine. I was interested if any one had any ideas on length size since the longest I can find is 12 foot long. Therefore we are going to have to cut and piece. Has anyone done this? Which width is better 4 6 or 8 inches.

ANY HELP would be greatly appreciated. I am a novice at building, but really like the look of the vaulted wood ceiling and want to put one in! thanks for the help


Last edited by raghib; 01-10-2009 at 04:18 PM. Reason: really need SOME advice in any form!
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Old 01-11-2009, 11:17 AM   #2
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When I built my house 12 years ago, I used 1X4 and 1X6 rough-sawn tongue and groove pine on all the ceilings except the kitchen, bathrooms, and closets.

20' is about the longest you'll find it, but 12-16 is more standard. If you specify lengths, you'll usually pay more. Random lengths are the least costly, you'll get anything from 6' to 16'.

Tongue and groove is pretty easy to install, as is ship-lap. Ship-lap must be nailed on the surface, the nails on tongue and groove can be concealed.

All boards will warp and twist to some degree, it's much easier to straighten a 4" wide board than an 8" one. Most of my ceilings are all 4", a few are 4" alternating with 6".

When you get the wood, make sure to acclimate it to the room before you install it. This means simply to stack it with a bit of airspace between each board in the room it is to be installed in for a few days, maybe a week. If you don't, even kiln-dried wood will shrink, leaving ugly gaps in the joints.

There's a knack to installing this type of wood, it'll take some time to get it. It can be a lot of work, or fairly easy. Building a scaffold, and having 2 people will help a lot, but it can be done from a ladder with one person.

When you get 3 or 4 feet from the end, measure from the last board to the wall in a few spots. The measurements will almost certainly be different. You'll need to tighten up the joints where the measurements are smaller, and loosen up where they are longer. This is part of the knack of making it look good. If you don't do this, your last board will be tapered, and look terrible.

There's actually a lot to this, but it certainly can be done, and if done right, it'll look great.

Rob

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Old 01-11-2009, 01:28 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raghib View Post
...We don't want to pay expense of "pre-finished" so we thought we would go to a lumber yard to buy the knotty pine. I was interested if any one had any ideas on length size since the longest I can find is 12 foot long.
Therefore we are going to have to cut and piece. Has anyone done this?
For Tongue and Groove pine, the lengths are generally random, like it is with hardwood flooring. Is is usually installed staggered, also like hardwood flooring.
Here is a short video about installing T&G on a flat ceiling. The concept is the same. Tho, they hand nail, you can use a finish nail gun: http://video.bobvila.com/m/21319568/...ch-ceiling.htm
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Originally Posted by raghib View Post
....Which width is better 4 6 or 8 inches.
That is up to you. It's a preference. I personlly like the 6" for a stained wood application. Just realize that, there are specific steps and things that you must do to prep stain and seal the wood, before installation. Will the room be heated or insulated? If not, you should seal all edges/sides of the boards and consider installing a vapor barrier behind it.

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Originally Posted by raghib View Post
ANY HELP would be greatly appreciated. I am a novice at building, but really like the look of the vaulted wood ceiling and want to put one in! thanks for the help
Good Luck.

FWIW: Here are some pics on one we installed on a room addition we built, last year. I made the decision here to use all 16' lengths. These were not easy to come by, since most lumber yards don't like to separate the longer lengths from the shorts (they are generally sold together).
It took me four trips to different yards, to compile the amount of 16' stock needed:





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Old 01-11-2009, 01:29 PM   #4
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THANK YOU> That was very helpful. especially about width size.

How did you "cut" and "piece" the ceiling together? Did you do it like a hardwood floor. Cut the length to various sizes and lay ends next to one another? We plan on blind nailing the wood up, therefore, plan on using t&g boards.

We will also be staining it prior to installing it, which should give it time to acclimate. Thanks for that heads up.

What did you use for crown molding, if any?
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Old 01-11-2009, 01:39 PM   #5
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How did you "cut" and "piece" the ceiling together? Did you do it like a hardwood floor. Cut the length to various sizes and lay ends next to one another?
Standard installation is laid out just like Hardwood flooring plank is staggered. If you are not sure about the exact method, do a web search on "how to install hardwood flooring".

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What did you use for crown molding, if any?
The standard stock for the border molding trim is 1x1 Pine.
However, I chose to use a bed-molding, or a variation of bed-molding, since I wanted there to be more detail for this installation (We had also installed bead board wainscoting on the lower walls with chair rails, so this was not a rustic look)
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Old 01-11-2009, 02:09 PM   #6
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The photos of the ceiling are AWESOME and exactly what I am shooting for

Yes, the room has heat vents and and insullated ceiling. We want to use it year round. Since we live in Northern Ohio, insulation and heat vents were mandatory.

Thanks for help on length, that has been my nemesis. Trying to find any thing longer than 12' is "special order" and soars the cost to about $16 a BOARD---astronamically out of the question.

What steps need to be taken beside staining wood before putting it up. Is one stain better than another. I was looking at miniwax brand.

I do have a builder helping install this but he has never hung a wood ceiling. Hence, I am doing research!!!!!

learning on the job!
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Old 01-11-2009, 02:16 PM   #7
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Three tips for you.
Paint the ceiling black first. Any missing knots and open joints won't show.
Use an air nailer. Your arm will fall off trying the hand nail all this wood upside down.
Finish the wood first.
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Old 01-11-2009, 02:32 PM   #8
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Apply a pre-conditioner first. This helps with a more even staining job and eliminates the blotches. Then seal, scuff sand with 220 grit, two top coats. Minwax is crap. Go to a wood flooring supplier or installer and buy some good stuff. Anything you buy in a big box store is not quality. I use Mohawk stains
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Old 01-11-2009, 06:16 PM   #9
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In addition to the wood conditioner, you must seal the knots with shellac, or they will bleed any stain or sealer applied to the surfaces.
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Old 01-11-2009, 09:07 PM   #10
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Everyone is being very helpful!

Suggestions on brands for pre-conditioners, shellac (shellac BEFORE of AFTER conditioner?) Two top coats I presume refer to the stain.

Time frame we're looking at to "treat" wood would be about 2-3 days?

How do you paint ceiling black when we are installing pine right on to beams. WHat kind of vapor shield is recommended. We do have insullation in the ceiling.

I did not notice a main center beam in the photos. Do you have one? No one at Home depot nor Lowes seemed to know. Unfortanately, our two "small store" lumber companies closed shop. ONly box stores nearby and a Carter Lumber. Adds more to why I am grateful for your blogs. Real answers!!
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Old 01-12-2009, 06:58 PM   #11
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I'm curious to know how you're insulating this and what use of a vapor barrier?

We moved into our current home a year ago last September and our 4-seasons room leaks air terribly! The thermal images taken by our Energy Auditor showed leaks from every joint and perimeter. At 10'x13' it has 2 heat ducts and a cold air return. It has a crawl space underneath that only has 1" foamboard on the foundation (needs an additional inch) while the rim joists need to have the fiberglass batts removed and sealed with caulk and/or foam.

Room is completely open to the adjoining room and has no doors. I think adding some french style doors will be my first resort to protecting the rest of the house from it's colder temperatures. If that doesn't work, I need to investigate if it even has a vapor barrier and/or insulation. Then it might be bye-bye to the pine, insulate properly, and up with the sheetrock.

Sorry for the highjack of your post but I will be watching for any added feedback as you continue.

Thanks. Best of luck.
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Old 01-13-2009, 04:11 PM   #12
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I am not sure the construction of your room. We added R30 insullation to the ceiling and the walls, tvek to the outside to the walls, and 2 heat vents since we also expanded the basement to go under the room.
No cold air return, figure the room we have it off is a large enough draw.
ONe thing we did look into prior to adding the 12X18 room though was the size and heating capacity of our current furnace-to make sure it could handle the extra room AND the vaulted ceiling. It is 12degrees plus windchill here today and the room (still waiting for ceiling and floor, and window trimming) is warm and don't feel drafts nor cold throughout rest of house. Needless to say the untrimmed windows do have gaps and cold air IS coming in through them!!! Lovely heat loss (sacrasm) but this will be eventually fixed with trim. We are going to add skylights as well PRIOR to adding wood to ceiling. Should have done it while constructing roof, we know, but it was an afterthought once we saw the "walled" room. Two skylights facing to the south will add light (and hopefully not too much HEAT in summer).

What type of windows do you have? Something else I investigated prior to ordering and installing. I went with double hung, low-e, thermal Anderson windows. They really seem to keep the cold out.

We will be installing double hung french doors as well, more to be able to separate the sunroom from the family room than as a heat maintaining device. Although we could use them as such.

OUr room is off the east side of our home so it also does not get much direct wind. The west side of our home does. that helps with heat loss prevention.

Back to my post questions....CONDITIONER/SEALER/SHELLAC SUGGESTIONS. Want to get lumber and get this ceiling started since it seems like it will take several days to condition/stain acclimate wood.
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Old 01-13-2009, 07:14 PM   #13
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Needless to say the untrimmed windows do have gaps and cold air IS coming in through them!!! Lovely heat loss (sacrasm) but this will be eventually fixed with trim
I hope you mean that you'll be foaming these in and then trimming? Not just covering up?
Quote:
What type of windows do you have?
Double hung Pella windows is all I know. It's a preexisting 4-seasons room.
Quote:
Our room is off the east side of our home so it also does not get much direct wind. The west side of our home does. that helps with heat loss prevention.
House sits on a NW by SE axis and the 4-seasons room is centrally located on the width of the house and exposed on the norther side of the house. Hard to explain really but it gets the wind from the West, North, and East. I can be anywhere from 5-10 degrees cooler than from the adjacent room. Though the thermometer is located on an exterior wall...may have something to do with it but it is noticeably cooler once entering this room. More like a 3-season room if you ask me (sarcasm).

Thank you for your follow-up to my post.
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Old 01-14-2009, 02:35 PM   #14
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I am wondering if anyone could tell me how much to bid for a job for Tongue and Groove and 45 cut ceiling installation? I am trying to bid a job and I am not sure how to bid for it. Thank you!
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Old 01-14-2009, 02:38 PM   #15
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I am wondering if anyone could tell me how much to bid for a job for Tongue and Groove and 45 cut ceiling installation? I am trying to bid a job and I am not sure how to bid for it. Thank you!
figure 2.5 times what you would be installing it straight.

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