Kitchen Floor Not Level ... Need Help - Building & Construction - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Building & Construction

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-14-2012, 06:41 PM   #1
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Kitchen Floor Not Level ... Need help


New kitchen for my mom has led into some problems but I've been able to overcome them up until this point.

I'm trying to level the floor joists to make way for a new subfloor in a 1904 home. The joists are out 1-3/4" on the low side. I'm not sure if i should get the house jacked or just fir up the joists.

I was trying to bring up the floor by way of tele-posting the beam, but there is too much weight and 1/4" is all I can move it. There are a lot of utilities running around it in the basement as well so trying to avoid damaging any gas or water lines.

I'll attach some photos of the location. Really need some advice on this one....

http://imgur.com/a/gru0D#0

Advertisement

vidjunkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2012, 07:25 PM   #2
Civil Engineer
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Boston
Posts: 4,309
Rewards Points: 2,196
Default

Kitchen Floor Not Level ... Need help


The joists look like they may be inadequately sized for the application. The best way to tell is to carefully measure the true dimensions of the joists, measure the clear span, and try to determine the wood species, then run some calculations to determine anticipated sag due to floor loading of the joists. You indicate the house is old, and given the apparent size and span of the joists, it is not surprising that they have deflected. Generally the greatest deflection is at mid span.

Jacking up the main beam to level the joists is a difficult operation, and can lead to grief and consternation if not done carefully and correctly. For example, if you jack too quickly, you can crack the beam and/or the joists. If you plan to support the beam with a new lally column, you need a proper footing for the column. Lots of bad things can and do happen when you jack beams, this is an advanced DIY job in my book.

On the other hand, if the joists are slightly undersized, but structurally sound, it is certainly feasible to shim the joists to level, even if it is up to an inch and a half. The shims can be wood, steel, plastic or even concrete, as long as you can attach it to the joists. This is often a better plan than jacking the beam, as it is far less likely to lead to structural damage. Course you apparently already started to jack the beam, so you had best check to make sure you did not damage anything before moving on to plan B. And do run the calculations to make sure your beam and joists are adequately sized for the load. If not, you should consider options such as sistering joists.

Advertisement

Daniel Holzman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2012, 08:49 PM   #3
Haverhill Trade 1965
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 532
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Kitchen Floor Not Level ... Need help


Sometimes when I see an old house I wonder how they stood up this long. Then when I see they did, I wonder about some of the calculations saying they can't. If it were mine I would glue and fasten a joist on to the side of the old ones with the top level, notching ends as needed to get end bearing. It may not be "according to Hoyle", but it will be stronger than what you have. If you have a permit, just a warning, the inspector may not think too much of it, but you have not changed the existing, and codes cannot be retroactive. You would be adding strength to it. You might be able to add beams under them to cut spans if needed. I have dealt with some "tough" inspectors and if you ask their opinion offering a couple options you thought of, they will usually, puff out their chest, and tell you what they can live with, or give you a better idea. "Arguing with an inspector, is like wrestling with a pig in the mud. If you're smart, you may realize the pig loves that."
Duckweather is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2012, 08:53 PM   #4
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Kitchen Floor Not Level ... Need help


Thanks for the response. After a quick re-measurement, I hadn't actually moved the beam with the newly placed telepost at all. It's now only slightly relieving the 3 sistered 2x12 post beside it.

After re-reading your reply I checked to see if there was extra stress happening on walls or wood, none is apparent atm.

The span of the beam below is 21.5' x 9.25" x 8.25"(4 boards sistered together).

The crossing joists are 14' x 7.25" x 1.75".

They are fir boards, I have a lumber yard friend who identified them.
vidjunkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2012, 09:03 PM   #5
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Kitchen Floor Not Level ... Need help


Thanks for the reply Duckweather, your direction might be the way to go sistering a new joist beside. Jacking up the floor 2" or firring up the top that much made me very uneasy. I have plenty of 3.5" screws and lots of construction glue. Firring the joist was the ultimate thing I was trying to avoid as the floor squeaked before.

Last edited by vidjunkie; 06-14-2012 at 09:07 PM.
vidjunkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2012, 09:18 PM   #6
AHH, SPANS!!!
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Durham NC
Posts: 1,684
Rewards Points: 1,032
Default

Kitchen Floor Not Level ... Need help


Quote:
Originally Posted by vidjunkie View Post
Thanks for the reply Duckweather, your direction might be the way to go sistering a new joist beside. Jacking up the floor 2" or firring up the top that much made me very uneasy. I have plenty of 3.5" screws and lots of construction glue. Firring the joist was the ultimate thing I was trying to avoid as the floor squeaked before.

go from one side of the room to the other and pull a string line across that span on the low side of the room. bring the string line up to the height you need across the whole room and then fill in between with your new sister joists, making them all line up with the string line. the low problem will be fixed and the joists will all line up

just raise the new joist up above the old joist ( in line with the string line) without trying to raise the house 2"
hand drive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2012, 09:26 PM   #7
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Kitchen Floor Not Level ... Need help


I feel very relieved with these responses, tyvm to you three. I have a laser level borrowed from my neighbor and it's been a great help in assessing the problem area. I'll use is to get my outside marks and snap a line across. There is a walkway on the right side so I'll have to use the laser itself there starting with the farthest joist first.

Last edited by vidjunkie; 06-15-2012 at 12:55 PM.
vidjunkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2012, 12:20 AM   #8
AHH, SPANS!!!
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Durham NC
Posts: 1,684
Rewards Points: 1,032
Default

Kitchen Floor Not Level ... Need help


if it seems that you are having to raise the joist to much to achieve level then maybe consider going one size up in the joist size.

Last edited by hand drive; 06-15-2012 at 12:27 AM.
hand drive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2012, 07:57 PM   #9
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Kitchen Floor Not Level ... Need help


My neighbor does home renovations and was taking a look at it today. He borrowed me 2 12t jacks and suggested I spread some blocking for a base a jack up. Is this alright, or am I going to see cracks everywhere?

EDIT: I checked my 2 finished upstairs bathrooms and the one on the back side of the supporting wall is going to be way out if I jack up.

Last edited by vidjunkie; 06-15-2012 at 08:08 PM.
vidjunkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2012, 10:31 AM   #10
AHH, SPANS!!!
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Durham NC
Posts: 1,684
Rewards Points: 1,032
Default

Kitchen Floor Not Level ... Need help


Quote:
Originally Posted by vidjunkie View Post
My neighbor does home renovations and was taking a look at it today. He borrowed me 2 12t jacks and suggested I spread some blocking for a base a jack up. Is this alright, or am I going to see cracks everywhere?

EDIT: I checked my 2 finished upstairs bathrooms and the one on the back side of the supporting wall is going to be way out if I jack up.

I would jack as much as possible to get the settling areas raised up some but do not expect to raise an entire side of the house up 2 inches without steel beams spanning the entirety of the structure etc... you will crack walls, tile, all of the above - pun intended.
hand drive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2012, 11:03 AM   #11
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 713
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Kitchen Floor Not Level ... Need help


Quote:
Originally Posted by Duckweather View Post
"Arguing with an inspector, is like wrestling with a pig in the mud. If you're smart, you may realize the pig loves that."
Nice one; so very true.

Advertisement

tony.g is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Need help in re-designing tiny 1920's kitchen! PiscesWoman Interior Decorating 21 04-30-2012 04:25 PM
2 Bathrooms and a Kitchen KevinACrider Project Showcase 16 10-31-2011 07:03 AM
smell in basement from non-vented kitchen sink ahgill Plumbing 3 10-11-2010 03:39 PM
New floor/subfloor in kitchen. Need ideas DanBress Flooring 3 10-20-2008 09:31 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts