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Old 12-11-2012, 06:45 AM   #61
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joist not sitting flush to beam


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Originally Posted by dsharp View Post
http://www.texasforestproducts.com/so_pine/MAXspans2003_202.pdf
I think you're over thinking this. If you look at the span tables a 2x8 or 2x10 will span the same direction as the trusses without using the center beam and joist hangers. If you're worried about the twist fasten or clamp a long 2x4 to the twisted beam, let it go past the beam so you can nail or block off the truss above it to hold it plumb until you get your joist hung. It going to take a helper and leave enough hanging down to get enough leverage on it. You could just nail 2x4 on 24" centers to the bottom of the scissor trusses then hang your sheet rock on that. If the farthest span is 32" between trusses a 2x4 should be fine. I would use 5/8" drywall. It wouldn't be flat but you'ld pick up some headroom. There are several ways to go about it.
Basically, what your saying is you can use a 2x8 or 2x10 that is cut to go across the room without a center beam. The lumber would run in the same direction as the trusses.

I dont follow what your saying about the 2x4's and the twisted beam though.

Your also saying you could nail 2x4's to the bottom of those trusses, run them perp. to the trusses and put them 24" on centers. If I did this, were would you put your boxes for lights and fans?

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Old 12-11-2012, 08:52 AM   #62
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joist not sitting flush to beam


For the lights, the boxes nail to the sides of the framing. Leave the box sticking out 1/2 or 5/8 depending on sheetrock thickness so the box sits flush when the ceiling is installed. For ceiling fans you have to put framing behind the box to hold the extra weigh, Example would be a 2x4 across the top of the bottom chord of 2 trusses that are installed. You would have to add a 1/2" of plywood under the box so it's flush with installed ceiling. The boxes are 1 1/2" deep. Run the wire in through the side of the box. For the twist - Your using the long 2x4 like a "cheater pipe". Take a long 2x4 and put it up the side of the 2x6 far enough to reach past the bottom of the truss. Screww the 2x4 to the twisted 2x6 and pull the twist out. The top of the 2x4 is going to move in the opposite direction. When the twist is out screw a block on the truss to hold the load of the 2x4 so your helper can let go. You could put a c clamp on the bottom of a wall stud and tie the 2x4 (cheater pipe) to the clamp to hold straight while you hang the joists. Wet treated wood was not the best choice due to it's weight but if that's what you had I understand that too. If you still can't get it pictured in your mind let me know
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Old 12-11-2012, 09:21 AM   #63
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joist not sitting flush to beam


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Originally Posted by 67velle View Post
Not sure I totally follow you there.

There is some 2x6 wood on top of the bottom plate, but it looks like it is just nailed to the bottom plate making it doubled up.

Could you fill up the entire area between studs with 2x6's?
the idea is to put in a header at the lower portion of the wall to help spread the weight from the point load of the beam( the point load is the 2x's that make up the vertical support located under the beam in the 2 outer walls that the beam lands on). 2x10 header that goes 6 feet in either direction from center making it 12' total would provide more point load support than the uncertain foundation under the wall now.

putting one central point load down onto a header sitting on the bottom plates will help to spread the load placed on the foundation in that one specific spot. cut the header length so that it is tight to the inside of both wall studs at both ends of the header,plan on somewhere around 12' long depending on stud layout.

edit, just re read some... there are many opinions here so to make it simple, you have the ceiling joists already bought and paid for so you really only need a new beam and possible add in wall header for the point load of the beam on both outer walls.
3-20' x 12" lvl with that weight rating (6,640 lbs) should be plenty strong for 400 sq foot of 5/8" drywall with no attic access.
Or, figure out if 20' long 2x12 SYP will be suffice for full length joists though you already have joist material bought... decisions,decisions

Last edited by hand drive; 12-11-2012 at 09:37 AM.
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Old 12-11-2012, 09:55 AM   #64
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joist not sitting flush to beam


Span, load, size, aside, when you install the joists you should install in pairs. Installing all the joists on one side, no matter what material, is an offset load. Any beam will have a tendency to tip, top toward the load, leaving a gap at the bottom on the loaded side. Laminated beams can allow the one piece on the loaded side to separate at the top from the others. I have seen 24" LVL's do it even bolted and glued. Proper installation method is still important no matter how good the technology gets.
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Old 12-11-2012, 08:20 PM   #65
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joist not sitting flush to beam


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Originally Posted by dsharp View Post
For the lights, the boxes nail to the sides of the framing. Leave the box sticking out 1/2 or 5/8 depending on sheetrock thickness so the box sits flush when the ceiling is installed. For ceiling fans you have to put framing behind the box to hold the extra weigh, Example would be a 2x4 across the top of the bottom chord of 2 trusses that are installed. You would have to add a 1/2" of plywood under the box so it's flush with installed ceiling. The boxes are 1 1/2" deep. Run the wire in through the side of the box. For the twist - Your using the long 2x4 like a "cheater pipe". Take a long 2x4 and put it up the side of the 2x6 far enough to reach past the bottom of the truss. Screww the 2x4 to the twisted 2x6 and pull the twist out. The top of the 2x4 is going to move in the opposite direction. When the twist is out screw a block on the truss to hold the load of the 2x4 so your helper can let go. You could put a c clamp on the bottom of a wall stud and tie the 2x4 (cheater pipe) to the clamp to hold straight while you hang the joists. Wet treated wood was not the best choice due to it's weight but if that's what you had I understand that too. If you still can't get it pictured in your mind let me know
I gotcha. Thanks.

When the electrical comes up I will be asking more questions.
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Old 12-11-2012, 08:24 PM   #66
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joist not sitting flush to beam


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Originally Posted by hand drive View Post
the idea is to put in a header at the lower portion of the wall to help spread the weight from the point load of the beam( the point load is the 2x's that make up the vertical support located under the beam in the 2 outer walls that the beam lands on). 2x10 header that goes 6 feet in either direction from center making it 12' total would provide more point load support than the uncertain foundation under the wall now.

putting one central point load down onto a header sitting on the bottom plates will help to spread the load placed on the foundation in that one specific spot. cut the header length so that it is tight to the inside of both wall studs at both ends of the header,plan on somewhere around 12' long depending on stud layout.

edit, just re read some... there are many opinions here so to make it simple, you have the ceiling joists already bought and paid for so you really only need a new beam and possible add in wall header for the point load of the beam on both outer walls.
3-20' x 12" lvl with that weight rating (6,640 lbs) should be plenty strong for 400 sq foot of 5/8" drywall with no attic access.
Or, figure out if 20' long 2x12 SYP will be suffice for full length joists though you already have joist material bought... decisions,decisions

I think I know what your talking about.

There is something like that about 4 feet up. There is a 2x6 nailed between each stud. The studs are 16" centers.

I ordered today a 1 3/4" -20' x12" lvl today. Man at Lowes says it is very strong for my application.
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Old 12-11-2012, 08:26 PM   #67
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joist not sitting flush to beam


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Originally Posted by Duckweather View Post
Span, load, size, aside, when you install the joists you should install in pairs. Installing all the joists on one side, no matter what material, is an offset load. Any beam will have a tendency to tip, top toward the load, leaving a gap at the bottom on the loaded side. Laminated beams can allow the one piece on the loaded side to separate at the top from the others. I have seen 24" LVL's do it even bolted and glued. Proper installation method is still important no matter how good the technology gets.
Can you work opposite? Like install one joist and then go to the opposite side and opposite end? Working toward the opposite ends....going back and forth?
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Old 12-11-2012, 10:02 PM   #68
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joist not sitting flush to beam


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Originally Posted by 67velle View Post
I think I know what your talking about.

There is something like that about 4 feet up. There is a 2x6 nailed between each stud. The studs are 16" centers.

I ordered today a 1 3/4" -20' x12" lvl today. Man at Lowes says it is very strong for my application.
one lone lvl may not even be as strong as the 2x6 beam you have up now. it needs to be at least two lvl's nailed like crazy together to form the beam or three would make it even better than that.. lvl nail patterns are something like 5 nail placement sets every 12 to 16" apart,then done the same way from the other side of the beam except offset from the first nail pattern

Last edited by hand drive; 12-11-2012 at 10:06 PM.
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Old 12-11-2012, 10:07 PM   #69
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joist not sitting flush to beam


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one lone lvl may not even be as strong as the 2x6 beam you have up now. it needs to be at least two lvl's nailed like crazy together to form the beam or three would make it even better than that.. lvl nail patterns are something like 5 nail placement sets every 12 to 16" apart,then done the same way from the other side of the beam except offset from the first nail pattern
Ill ask more questions....
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Old 12-11-2012, 10:10 PM   #70
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joist not sitting flush to beam


Put a joist on each side in the middle of the beam. Before you toenail the joists to the wall sight down the top of the lvl to make sure its not bowed then nail it down. Put another pair 1/2 way between the first set on each end and so forth. You want to install in pairs to equal out the forces.
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Old 12-12-2012, 09:57 AM   #71
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joist not sitting flush to beam


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Can you work opposite? Like install one joist and then go to the opposite side and opposite end? Working toward the opposite ends....going back and forth?
If you continue from one end to the other on one side and the opposite way on the other, you will be loading both sides 1/2 the length. Now you may get each half of the beam twisting in opposite directions. It won't have as much affect, but still not as good starting from any point and installing in pairs
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Old 12-13-2012, 06:33 AM   #72
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joist not sitting flush to beam


I gotcha. Those last two tips are very good.

How about tieing in the beam to a 2 x 6 up above the beam, the 2 x 6 ties all the trusses together.

This should help it not sag and give it some more strength.

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