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Old 12-09-2012, 11:00 AM   #46
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joist not sitting flush to beam


19 ft span.. .id be going with a 3 ply 16" lvl

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Old 12-09-2012, 01:02 PM   #47
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joist not sitting flush to beam


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19 feet and 2x6 do not match in any way possible, and you cannot really effectively make the beam wider to compensate for the lack of height in the beam. For 19' the beam should have been at least built from 2x12 lumber.

There are a couple of options. Since you have it somewhat built why not add another beam (dropped beam) under your beam with multiple 2x4s under the beam where it lands at the walls. head height might be an issue with the dropped beam though. The other option is to start over with a heavier beam, you might could add a temp wall support for your joists and take the beam apart and add the new beam in building it piece by piece.

I see what your saying.

What if the current beam is not sagging?

In reference to the two options. I think I would favor starting over.

Can you describe the added drop beam a little more? Sounds like you are adding 2x4's under the current beam and then supporting those at the outer wall with 2x4's?

How many 2 x 12's are we talking about for a a new beam?

Would you get them special cut at 19 feet? Would you splice them together like I did?
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Old 12-09-2012, 01:06 PM   #48
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joist not sitting flush to beam


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19 ft span.. .id be going with a 3 ply 16" lvl

Can you explain more fully?
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Old 12-09-2012, 02:01 PM   #49
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joist not sitting flush to beam


2x6 cant span that.. even with splices. ive used 3ply 2x6' headers for a 30" opening and thats it...

for a long span such as that it really should be engineered
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Old 12-09-2012, 07:37 PM   #50
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joist not sitting flush to beam


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2x6 cant span that.. even with splices. ive used 3ply 2x6' headers for a 30" opening and thats it...

for a long span such as that it really should be engineered
Engineered?

Do you mean getting a special made beam?
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:55 PM   #51
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joist not sitting flush to beam


Ok.

Lets review.

1. Take down everything.
2. Add additional studs to where the beam will be sitting.
3. Install 2 x 12's or a engineered beam.
4. Then add the joist hangers and joist.
5. Measure every joist before cutting.
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Old 12-10-2012, 05:41 AM   #52
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joist not sitting flush to beam


Would it be a good idea to call these guys for a beam?


http://betterheader.com/default.asp
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:19 AM   #53
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joist not sitting flush to beam


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Originally Posted by 67velle View Post
Ok.

Lets review.

1. Take down everything.
2. Add additional studs to where the beam will be sitting.
3. Install 2 x 12's or a engineered beam.
4. Then add the joist hangers and joist.
5. Measure every joist before cutting.
yes to all except #3 imo. toe nail your joists to the new beam and then add hangers last. you can build the entire thing without hangers and add them in later. I simply do that because sometimes different tools are involved and I treat it as different steps but you can add the hangers as you go too.
Also, something not mentioned yet, where the load from the new beam lands what type of foundation do you have along the underside of the wall where the beam supports (2x4)are located, will it hold the weight in that spot for a beam to land there?

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Originally Posted by 67velle View Post
Would it be a good idea to call these guys for a beam?


http://betterheader.com/default.asp
This is getting into specialized engineering spec requirement territory, best to call you local lumber yard and have a beam specified to your situation. Just tell them your spans and loads and they should hook you up with an engineered beam to specs. people here on the forum will be guessing most likely but it is easy to overkill that beam by making it 3-16"x 20' lvl. you could drive a bus over that ceiling if it were 3 16" lvl. LOL

Last edited by hand drive; 12-10-2012 at 08:22 AM.
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Old 12-10-2012, 02:45 PM   #54
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joist not sitting flush to beam


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yes to all except #3 imo. toe nail your joists to the new beam and then add hangers last. you can build the entire thing without hangers and add them in later. I simply do that because sometimes different tools are involved and I treat it as different steps but you can add the hangers as you go too.
Also, something not mentioned yet, where the load from the new beam lands what type of foundation do you have along the underside of the wall where the beam supports (2x4)are located, will it hold the weight in that spot for a beam to land there?

As far as the foundation goes, I dont know. I dont know how thick the concrete is. The pad is concrete and the outer walls have a 2 x 6 that is bolted to the concrete with the studs nailed to the bottom board with a 2x6 for a header. The concrete appears to 4" to 5" thick. I can be sure that is not less than 3 inches. I dont recall, the beam may or may not sit directly above a stud.

Would it be wise to fill the entire area under the beam with 2x6's?

This is getting into specialized engineering spec requirement territory, best to call you local lumber yard and have a beam specified to your situation. Just tell them your spans and loads and they should hook you up with an engineered beam to specs. people here on the forum will be guessing most likely but it is easy to overkill that beam by making it 3-16"x 20' lvl. you could drive a bus over that ceiling if it were 3 16" lvl. LOL
Ok, the actual span from outside header to outside header is 18' 5 1/2". The actual garage is around 19 x 20 feet.
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Old 12-10-2012, 05:53 PM   #55
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joist not sitting flush to beam


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Ok, the actual span from outside header to outside header is 18' 5 1/2". The actual garage is around 19 x 20 feet.

A way that I've added strength to the foundaition aspect of the wall, ( around the bottom portion of the wall) to add available point load re enforcing is to add in a header cut in at the bottom of the wall that sits on top of the bottom plate and spans either direction of where the beam lands a specific amount . A slight issue with that though if not done correctly and fastened well is the shear of the wall in relation to the cut you made in the studs, it provides a pivot point for load placed on it and can twist from to much weight. metal straps or help with that...
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Old 12-10-2012, 07:37 PM   #56
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joist not sitting flush to beam


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Originally Posted by hand drive View Post
yes to all except #3 imo. toe nail your joists to the new beam and then add hangers last. you can build the entire thing without hangers and add them in later. I simply do that because sometimes different tools are involved and I treat it as different steps but you can add the hangers as you go too.
Also, something not mentioned yet, where the load from the new beam lands what type of foundation do you have along the underside of the wall where the beam supports (2x4)are located, will it hold the weight in that spot for a beam to land there?



This is getting into specialized engineering spec requirement territory, best to call you local lumber yard and have a beam specified to your situation. Just tell them your spans and loads and they should hook you up with an engineered beam to specs. people here on the forum will be guessing most likely but it is easy to overkill that beam by making it 3-16"x 20' lvl. you could drive a bus over that ceiling if it were 3 16" lvl. LOL
Talk to the commerical sales down at Lowes, who use to be a contractor.

Upon measuring how much room I had on top of the header up to the support of the outside trusses. Anything taller than 12" would not work as it would hit the truss support.

He recommend a 1 3/4" 12" LVL. It covers 139 pounds per linear foot. Also supports 2641 pounds.
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Old 12-10-2012, 07:39 PM   #57
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joist not sitting flush to beam


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Originally Posted by hand drive View Post
A way that I've added strength to the foundaition aspect of the wall, ( around the bottom portion of the wall) to add available point load re enforcing is to add in a header cut in at the bottom of the wall that sits on top of the bottom plate and spans either direction of where the beam lands a specific amount . A slight issue with that though if not done correctly and fastened well is the shear of the wall in relation to the cut you made in the studs, it provides a pivot point for load placed on it and can twist from to much weight. metal straps or help with that...
Not sure I totally follow you there.

There is some 2x6 wood on top of the bottom plate, but it looks like it is just nailed to the bottom plate making it doubled up.

Could you fill up the entire area between studs with 2x6's?
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:53 PM   #58
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joist not sitting flush to beam


1. You don't need wood framed ceiling to have insulation.
2. You could consider suspended ceiling.
3. Use I-joists, if in the budget. Call the manufacturer and ask (their engineers will help you) what size is minimum required for 24" or even 48" on center placements for 1/2 or 5/8" sheetrock. You can use blocking in between to save some money on number of joists you need. Specify space above will be unused. Specify anything that will be part of the ceiling. Skylight, fans, lights. You may have to build inner wall to support new joists, or rim bands on existing wall and use joist hangers.
Span information may be available online. Look for info on dead load. That is weight of the material itself and maybe sheetrock, but nothing else sitting on the joists.
4. There is a chance that existing truss may also support hanging frame and you can put the sheetrock on it. I think it is worth the engineer's fee to find out.
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Old 12-10-2012, 09:19 PM   #59
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joist not sitting flush to beam


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1. You don't need wood framed ceiling to have insulation.
2. You could consider suspended ceiling.
3. Use I-joists, if in the budget. Call the manufacturer and ask (their engineers will help you) what size is minimum required for 24" or even 48" on center placements for 1/2 or 5/8" sheetrock. You can use blocking in between to save some money on number of joists you need. Specify space above will be unused. Specify anything that will be part of the ceiling. Skylight, fans, lights. You may have to build inner wall to support new joists, or rim bands on existing wall and use joist hangers.
Span information may be available online. Look for info on dead load. That is weight of the material itself and maybe sheetrock, but nothing else sitting on the joists.
4. There is a chance that existing truss may also support hanging frame and you can put the sheetrock on it. I think it is worth the engineer's fee to find out.
What your suggesting is getting a little out of my relm.

I will consult with a engineer, however will the use of the LVL as my center beam be sufficent? Can I run normal lumber joist out to the walls and be ok?

I would like to keep this fairly simple. First time on doing stuff like this. i dont have alot of money to get this done with as Im working on a tight budget.

My main concern is getting a good solid center beam to support the lumber joist.

Is the idea I have ok if I replace the 2x6 center beam with a LVL?

Last edited by 67velle; 12-10-2012 at 09:44 PM.
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Old 12-11-2012, 12:03 AM   #60
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joist not sitting flush to beam


http://www.texasforestproducts.com/so_pine/MAXspans2003_202.pdf
I think you're over thinking this. If you look at the span tables a 2x8 or 2x10 will span the same direction as the trusses without using the center beam and joist hangers. If you're worried about the twist fasten or clamp a long 2x4 to the twisted beam, let it go past the beam so you can nail or block off the truss above it to hold it plumb until you get your joist hung. It going to take a helper and leave enough hanging down to get enough leverage on it. You could just nail 2x4 on 24" centers to the bottom of the scissor trusses then hang your sheet rock on that. If the farthest span is 32" between trusses a 2x4 should be fine. I would use 5/8" drywall. It wouldn't be flat but you'ld pick up some headroom. There are several ways to go about it.

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