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Old 03-01-2012, 10:16 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by robertcdf View Post
in MY experience the township is not going to grant that variance if it goes into a utility easement at all
Just have to burn that bridge when I get there.

They have agreed to my ideas so far because of the unique nature of the site and they are giving me a little leeway because there was an existing deck there built over the Easement without a permit by the PO.

Funny, our Real Estate Agent forgot to mention the Easement

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Old 03-01-2012, 10:37 AM   #17
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The actual utility line(s) (Sewer and Storm) are fairly far into the Easement and the slope makes moving equipment through the deck footprint near impossible.
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Old 03-01-2012, 11:00 AM   #18
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What if you put another pier at the stairs the would support the weight of the stairs and negate any uplift on the cantilever?
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Old 03-01-2012, 11:13 AM   #19
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One point I think someone overlooked is the steepness and shortness of those stairs. For stairs that high, using up the entire 14'-3" of deck still might not get you legal. It certainly looks like you drew them way too short in travel, and far too steep to be within code.

Of course, I could be wrong since there are no dimensions anywhere on the stairs. But I see 16 treads (that appear to be too short).... then the deck landing, too. Right? And you're what... 11' -12' up... considering you're building on a slope?

Also.... make sure the AHJ will let you get away with a stair rail with no "grip" profile like that. Some locales won't go for just a 2x on edge.

I think you might be approaching, or be beyond, the legal limit on the length of the stringers, too. Just guessing, here. Check this with the AHJ also.
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Old 03-01-2012, 04:44 PM   #20
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Thank you. The stairs are just a mock-up right now as the final grade elevation is going to change. Once I have that number I'll do the math and cut them.

Is there still a structural issue on the bump out? I could do a concrete footing and block walls to give it more "stretch"?
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Old 03-01-2012, 04:47 PM   #21
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Judging by the width of the staircase, it looks like you will need two more stringers there.

Andy.
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Old 03-01-2012, 07:19 PM   #22
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So lets overlook the glaring structural issues and whine about the stairs not having a graspable handrail or qty of stringers... I'm sure his building department won't pass him without adequate graspable handrail and adequate stringers...
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Old 03-01-2012, 07:52 PM   #23
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Heavy stairs leaning against unsupported band board. BAD Laborer, BAD Laborer


Version 5?
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Old 03-01-2012, 08:22 PM   #24
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So lets overlook the glaring structural issues and whine about the stairs not having a graspable handrail or qty of stringers... I'm sure his building department won't pass him without adequate graspable handrail and adequate stringers...
Maybe most of us draw differently than you might be used to.

I have an aversion to drawing anything that "looks" like it will work with the overall plan when the inclusion of that false effort might have you chasing unrealistic solutions, all for nothing.

An example would be that 3' block column shown barely 5' tall... when it will be well over ten feet tall. This is a fact worth knowing and thinking about.... showing a 5' column could trick you into not seeing a possible problem.

If it isn't real, and scaled properly, why would you slip it into a drawing when depicting it correctly and accurately would have been just as easy?

Ever stop to think that with everything drawn accurately, some of those structural problems just might change altogether.... they might suddenly become twice the problem.... or sometimes even simply disappear?

Half-drawings can lead to half-solutions.

Just draw everything correctly from the start.
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:18 PM   #25
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I agree with you one hundred percent and feel accuracy in the drawing is important.

The lot slopes so steeply into the side of the house that the beam will be almost at grade. I may even have to cut a little to get it in. 3' deep to the frost line is not unreasonable. The sketch-up program added the courses in the block (I draw the line at creating each block individually )


I'll try and upload the topo and survey tomorrow.
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:43 PM   #26
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I only stress this because now, in the drawing stages, is the time to make sure everything fits and clears everything else as it is all going together on the screen.

BTW, have you tried moving the long beam back toward the house a little to see it you could actually butt the tops of the stringers against the beam, itself? I think your cantilever might still be legal with 14' joists.
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Old 03-01-2012, 10:23 PM   #27
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dont cantilever the landing area, bump the deck in the 2-3 feet right there.

and put posts under those stairs...you havent mentioned that this cant be done.

you will need to look at the stair and landing geometry now to see if you can make legal stairs work.

I'm sure it can be engineered, but is it worth the time and expense when you can just give up about 12 sqft of deck space by not cantilevering the landing area and solve most of the problems (with the main one now being how to support those stairs).
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Old 03-02-2012, 12:18 AM   #28
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I was thinking to just turn the joists 90 degrees on the landing part. To keep the deck pieces running continuiously in the same direction, just add in blocking on the original 16" layout for the fasteners.
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Old 03-02-2012, 05:24 AM   #29
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Here is a rough approximation of the grade. The stairs will end several feet short of the ledger and the rise will be only about 5' or so. The remaining will be taken up by free-form masonry turning slightly into the deck and passing through the ledger post (that'll be fun)

I know there are a lot of issues with the stairs. It was Concept only. I imported them from Sketch-Up and scaled them to fit so they were all wrong. As I firm up the finished landing pad, I'll detail the stairs. They will not be built until after the patio.

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dont cantilever the landing area, bump the deck in the 2-3 feet right there.
The stairs have to sit 36-42" off the back of the house to allow access to the area under the deck.

Thanks for all the info so far guys. I'm trying to work the problem myself as well. I don't like to spoon feed others and I hope I'm not being to obtuse about the subject.
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Old 03-02-2012, 08:12 AM   #30
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I think it's time to talk to your engineer and see if he has a plan that could work, I've seen some neat things done with engineering and posts coming into piers at angles and such, sounds like they might work in your situation, however that needs to be an engineers call.

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