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Old 03-01-2012, 07:20 AM   #1
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Joist Layout


How does that saying go..."Its better to keep your mouth shut and let people think you are an idiot, than open it and prove them right."

So for someone who claims to know his way around a nail gun this is pretty embarrassing but I'm having a heck of a time detailing this deck (hence the reason it is not built).

I have an Engineer, who is going to stamp my drawings before I run them to the Township but I want to run it by the peanut gallery before I show it to him and embarrass myself further.

A bump out for stairs. A simple thing right? Then why can't I figure it out.

So, here goes, let me drop trou'



Let the hazing begin....
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Old 03-01-2012, 08:05 AM   #2
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That wont work... You have a hinge point right where those joists come together (UNLESS you have piers under that beam too, it doesn't look like it) You have partially the right idea, I would go with a flush beam in this case (beam at the end as the rim)... Hang on let me draw something up real quick...

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Old 03-01-2012, 08:12 AM   #3
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This is how I would construct that deck, or some variant thereof.
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Old 03-01-2012, 08:14 AM   #4
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I figured as much.

What if I joist Hanger points 1, and lag screwed through the double beam at points #2, and added double Joist Hangers at #3?
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Old 03-01-2012, 08:17 AM   #5
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I'm trying to keep my piers set back the maximum amount by code due to an Easement.

The Township said they will likely give me Variance if I can cantilever over the line but they don't want any concrete piers over their storm line.
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Old 03-01-2012, 08:17 AM   #6
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The biggest problem is 4' joists hanging 2' over the beam... Cantilevered joists should have a 3:1 ratio of joist hanging over to joist NOT hanging over (ex 6' before the beam = 2' over the beam.) You could do hangers and also add piers to that beam but there is no real point. The beam for the stairs can be short, it doesn't need to go back through all those joists that's a lot of extra hangers and cutting.
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Old 03-01-2012, 08:19 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CplDevilDog View Post
I'm trying to keep my piers set back the maximum amount by code due to an Easement.

The Township said they will likely give me Variance if I can cantilever over the line but they don't want any concrete piers over their storm line.
The laws of physics don't really care about setbacks... Just saying that design won't work as you posted originally.
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Old 03-01-2012, 08:22 AM   #8
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If I center the tripled beam under the short joists the uplift force at points #2 should be minimal?

Also, I'm pretty sure I'm going to need a pier and post at the lower right-hand corner to support that cantilevered ledger.
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Old 03-01-2012, 08:29 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CplDevilDog View Post
If I center the tripled beam under the short joists the uplift force at points #2 should be minimal?

Also, I'm pretty sure I'm going to need a pier and post at the lower right-hand corner to support that cantilevered ledger.
What if everyone gathers at the corner at the top of the stairs to look at the wildlife in the neighbors yard?
The engineer might be able to do something with inverted hangers but I kind of doubt it. Even if he comes up with something there is no need for the stair beam to extend into the rest of the deck frame.

Yes, you will need a pier at the ledger cant.

In MY experience the zoning department doesn't care about the foundation, they care about the structure extending into setbacks, even the roof overhangs count as part of the structure. I'd be really pushing for an answer in writing to know if they'll let you, they might just want to string you along so you apply and pay the fee.
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Old 03-01-2012, 08:43 AM   #10
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How about my ah-haaa moment?


----> myself
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Old 03-01-2012, 08:49 AM   #11
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Still some issues?
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Old 03-01-2012, 08:56 AM   #12
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Now you changed the load from the joists to a short beam that is balancing on the main beam... Not really going to fly, unless you can get the engineer to design a hold down to work... How about making the landing bigger? Like this?
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Old 03-01-2012, 08:57 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CplDevilDog View Post
Still some issues?
Yes, still a pivot issue.
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Old 03-01-2012, 08:58 AM   #14
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Might get there one day....
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:02 AM   #15
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You'll need to support that corner unless you make the joists longer. Like I said in MY experience the township is not going to grant that variance if it goes into a utility easement at all, even if the deck was 30' in the air and the beam was 3' back.

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