DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum

DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum (http://www.diychatroom.com/)
-   Building & Construction (http://www.diychatroom.com/f19/)
-   -   joist hanger strength question (http://www.diychatroom.com/f19/joist-hanger-strength-question-178844/)

Bonebag 05-05-2013 05:23 PM

joist hanger strength question
 
Hey gang,

Were going on 2.5 months into our complete gutting of our home. So far we've removed every shred of plaster, plumbing, electrical (exept for one bathroom for function) and been working tirelessly on fixing the catastrophe that the plumbers and hvac people rained down on the structure. I've rebuilt half of the first floor by attaching a ledger to the 10x10 rim joist and spanning the joists between that and new Center beams constructed of 4 2x8's (up to code and engineer approved..actually overbuilt). We had to remove the hardwood and entire subfloor in the half we rebuilt as a powder post infestation back decades ago had made the floor unsavable and impossible to come close to level. I'm in the process of removing the floor joists in the other half and replacing them with new 2x8's with 5" layer of plywood screwed and glued to the top (a t-joist if you will) allowing me to glue and screw the new joist to the subfloor from below. So far so good and the 6 feet of perfect maple and two layers of TNG 3/4x8 subfloor is leveling out nicely only 18 feet to go. My question is I will have to level the floor AFTER all the joists are in. Is it safe...and will the Strong Tie Joist hangars support the floor without the Toe Nail running into the sides and into the "ledger" and Beam. I've used the proper 10D hangar nails to face nail the joist hanger to the beams and ledger. I'd like to keep the toe nails out so I can bring the floor up or down to get her level with the other side and the kitchen add on. This is a ballon frame..so no major weight..other than the floor structure is being effected. Thanks so much.

GBrackins 05-05-2013 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonebag (Post 1173177)
5" layer of plywood screwed and glued to the top (a t-joist if you will) allowing me to glue and screw the new joist to the subfloor from below.

My question is I will have to level the floor AFTER all the joists are in.

normally I'd jump right in and give you answers to your questions, however for some reason I'm at a loss or totally confused as to how you're adding 5" layer of plywood on top of joists that are not level, yet it sounds like you're having to install the floor joists ....... sorry I can't help

kwikfishron 05-05-2013 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonebag (Post 1173177)
I'm in the process of removing the floor joists in the other half and replacing them with new 2x8's with 5" layer of plywood screwed and glued to the top

:eek: I sure do hope there's a typo in there. Can you post some pictures?

GBrackins 05-05-2013 07:33 PM

so it's wasn't just me kwik ...

jagans 05-05-2013 09:17 PM

After listening to what you have taken out, what is left that is worth saving? Wouldn't it make sense to completely demolish and build a new plumb and square dwelling? :eek:

nightriderrv 05-07-2013 07:38 AM

I hope it's a typo because 5" is a ton of weight.

Bonebag 05-08-2013 12:58 AM

LOL...sorry about that.

5 inches wide....1/2 inch plywood.

I didn't subscribe so I didn't see your posts. As far as the questions about why not build from scratch. Believe it or not I'd rather do it this way then deal with the permits and cost. It's easier for the bank to give you 20 grand for an existing house on a nice lot than it is to get money for something that doesn't exist except in your mind. (yes..I have my permits)


Plywood on top of joist aside...are they strong enough to support a decent amount of working weight without being toe-nailed? Thanks

jagans 05-08-2013 10:32 AM

Im not sure what you are saying, but joist hangers need to be used exactly like the manufacturer says. Those special nails must be used, and the joist has to sit firmly in the saddle. It kind of sounds like you are going to ride them up in the saddle? Toe nailing will simply split the wood and weaken the end of the joist, unless Im not getting you, which is entirely possible, as I am a visual person.

MTN REMODEL LLC 05-08-2013 02:07 PM

Acctually, this sounds pretty interesting.

In effect, are you putting in your joists after you've put in your flooring. (or left the existing flooring to state it honestly).

Boy, that's a story to tell and really "out-of-box" thinking!

Is your 5" plywood flange on your joist, in effect just a nailer so you can secure down (acually secure up) your flooring to your new joists.?

I think you are trying to "temporarily" hang your joists, such that you can come back later and level everythin out (presumably with jack screws or something)

I could be totally wrong and confused but this sounds extreemly interesting. Any chance we could see some pic's.

Best

Peter

MTN REMODEL LLC 05-08-2013 02:20 PM

Just guessing, but I think I'm understanding your question/situation. Don't have my Simpson book nearby for part #.... but apparently ? you've nailed the hangers to your rim or beam or ledger, and just have your joists sitting in them without the diagonal nailing in place.

Now you want to level the floor out more perfectly.

I assume you would be either popping each effected hanger off its 1-1/2" face nails and resetting them. or if minor adjustment is needed just shimming up the joist in the hanger.

I intuitively would think your face nailing is satisfactory temporary support... BUT I"M NOT AN ENGINEER.

Call Simpson if in doubt, or your engineer will have Simpson technical data.
Simpson is really good in helping.

If I'm way off base:whistling2:..... but sure would like to see some pictures

Peter

joecaption 05-08-2013 03:03 PM

That is one confusing post.
No clue why you would not have just pulled a string to set the joist.
No idea why if you have 2 X 8 joist (which sound really undersized unless it's a really short span) you would be using a 5" wide piece of plywood when the joist is 7-1/2.

Just using a 2 X 10 should have been enough to skip the plywood.

Bonebag 05-08-2013 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTN REMODEL LLC (Post 1175098)
Acctually, this sounds pretty interesting.

In effect, are you putting in your joists after you've put in your flooring. (or left the existing flooring to state it honestly).

Boy, that's a story to tell and really "out-of-box" thinking!

Is your 5" plywood flange on your joist, in effect just a nailer so you can secure down (acually secure up) your flooring to your new joists.?

I think you are trying to "temporarily" hang your joists, such that you can come back later and level everythin out (presumably with jack screws or something)

As far as going to 2x10 I'd have to do some major destruction to the field stone foundation or some major notching which would effectively make them 2x8's. 2x8's span the 10'8" by the book with 16 on center.
I could be totally wrong and confused but this sounds extreemly interesting. Any chance we could see some pic's.

Best

Peter

This is exactly what I am doing...I'll upload some pics later tonight. I tried it on half of the first floor and it failed due to a lot of powder post beetle damage to the subfloor. This side of the house has very little in comparison and none to the subfloor. They treated for powder post beetles before time began. The fact that the bottom layer (two layers of 3/4 inch tongue and groove) of subfloor having rot it compressed and It was all wonky...so I removed the complete floor and built it new.

MTN REMODEL LLC 05-08-2013 07:14 PM

Common guys..... Bonebag has given each of us the ooportunity to say:

"We know a guy that installs his floor before he installs his floor joists":thumbup:

Bones... I know that diagonal nailing on the now standard Simpson hanger, does add some structural streangth attributes.... how much I have no idea (remember the old hangers where you just face nailed both faces of the hanger bracket).... but a call to Simpson might be a good idea as you're going to be doing some jacking/leveling activity also.

By the way, what is a powder beattle... some kinda termite.... never heard of them.

Peter

jagans 05-08-2013 07:52 PM

Composition C-4

Bonebag 05-08-2013 10:46 PM

Funny...just trying to save the work of removing the floor layers, removing the nails from a ton more of hardwood..then re-attaching, not to mention paying for the plywood and such. If it doesn't work..which it most likely will...I'm only out a little extra time and a couple sheets of 12 dollar plywood. So here's some pics:
Here's the 1901 Rock Maple IXL flooring in pretty good shape for being 100 years old.
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...psdedfd872.jpg
here's a pano of the area from the kitchen. the far room is the half that was replaced...beyond the chimney
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...ps71903bb6.jpg
Here's the original floor in the entryway, which I always knew had to go. There was a leak in the upstairs bathroom at some point which wasn't taken care of.
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...ps1ca29d64.jpg
Here's a basement view of the floor joists in the half we re-worked. They were pretty bad.
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...psa0bad4c3.jpg
Here's the top side of the joists with the plywood tops after deciding to rip up the floor as the sub-floor was beyond repair
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...psb56138a8.jpg
Here's my buddy on a break after getting the floor out
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...ps8a7210c8.jpg
coming along
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...ps6b255d5a.jpg
current progress removing the joists on the other side.
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...pscd95d248.jpg
I could have gotten away with sistering these on this side. But they were bowed pretty bad and didn't want to mess with them. They were ALL different sizes as well and different spacing. Not sure if you've ever removed plaster from a 1600 square foot house before, but if you have you know it's rough work. The "sawdust" from a powder post infestation is so bad it clogs up a HEPA filter in a second and makes plaster dust look feel like lying on a beach.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:03 AM.