Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Building & Construction

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-08-2009, 01:14 AM   #31
Member
 
cocobolo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Gulf Islands, B.C., Canada
Posts: 6,520
Share |
Default

Insulating to stop air infiltration in the basement.


The knee is not good. Thanks for asking. Looks like at least two weeks before she will even be able to stand with crutches.
A few years ago there was a major forest fire that went through Kelowna here in B.C. The houses with the asphalt/fiberglass shingles on the roofs did not catch fire. With regard to houses in the path of a forest fire, they usually catch by flying embers landing on the roof. The live video feeds they had on TV were pretty frightening.

cocobolo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2009, 08:10 AM   #32
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South Western Ontario
Posts: 62
Default

Insulating to stop air infiltration in the basement.


I don't know if this has been mentioned but the best way to get a an air tight seal is to get someone to spray icylene insulation. It was quoted around $600 for a 30x30 house (120' of wall). You will never feel a draft again if the guy knows what he's doing.
joel v. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2009, 09:15 AM   #33
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 56
Default

Insulating to stop air infiltration in the basement.


Quote:
Originally Posted by joel v. View Post
I don't know if this has been mentioned but the best way to get a an air tight seal is to get someone to spray icylene insulation. It was quoted around $600 for a 30x30 house (120' of wall). You will never feel a draft again if the guy knows what he's doing.
Wow, just $600.00? REALLY!!! I thought it would be in thousands.

I had a guy come in to give me a quote and he told me it will cost me $4,500.00. He told me they use a gallon of tiny round styrofoam particles that fills nicely into cavities. I told him I will think about it.

By the way, I cannot for the life of me find ROXUL insulation. Anywhere for that matter - not in HD or Lowes.
__________________
Life is tough, but it is even more tougher when a person is stupid.
diy4life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2009, 11:00 PM   #34
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 6
Default

Insulating to stop air infiltration in the basement.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sweaty View Post
I just insulated and sealed my rim joists with 2" thick extruded polystyrene from Lowe's and caulk and spray foam. It made a big difference and, counter-intuitively, made the top floor warmer by reducing the stack effect.
Hey isn't that polyurethane foam dangerous in a fire?
reny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2009, 07:15 AM   #35
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 56
Smile

Insulating to stop air infiltration in the basement.


Quote:
Originally Posted by reny View Post
Hey isn't that polyurethane foam dangerous in a fire?
Apparently, that is the selling point for this Styrofoam - It doesn't catch on fire.

Anyways, I just found out that my basement walls are just hollow like cinder blocks supposed to be. I ran my tap measure as far as it can go and it went like 10 feet. So, basically these cinder blocks must be very porous and that's how the outside air is hitting my rim joists.

Now, I really have to find a contractor to fill these cinder block with some sort of paste insulation. Do you guys know of any?

thanks,
__________________
Life is tough, but it is even more tougher when a person is stupid.
diy4life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2009, 05:51 AM   #36
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: South Western Ontario
Posts: 955
Default

Insulating to stop air infiltration in the basement.


DIY4life,
You mentioned RETRO as a foam type. If you are referring to Retrofoam (as a brand )it was banned last month in Canada by the Governement and the Canadian distributor who happens to be located in my area has been put on hold pending further testing.
Re the rim joist, this is tricky work over an existing framed wall but if you want it done right don't think of it as a 3 hour fix. I have an unfinished 1200 ft basement and I did the entire rim and sill and each joist bay, top bottom and sides. While it may be overkill I wanted it done right once. You need to get your head into each and every space or get a mechanics mirror and inspect the blind spots to do this right. You should also inspect your work the same way when done. This is one of the benefits of spray foam as it will expand into(clean) blinds spots. Although a can is great for tight spots you will need large tanks to fill entire joist bays and the product is different from Great Stuff. You might want to read up on Tiger Foam, etc as a DIY product.
( Roxul is a Canadian product so it may be very hard to locate in your area)
I found several gaps I never knew I had and a 42" section of sill plate missing entirely below a pantry overhanging my garage which I rebuilt with wood and inserted from the inside. It has made a huge difference.

If you want to keep the mice out and not end up with moisture and draft behind your finished walls, you need to go at this one wall at a time and be meticulous. I have seen mice eat through spray foam (Great Stuff) in my garage door frame.
If this helps to put it inperspective, an Energy Audit revealed my leakage to be equal to a 144" hole... or, yes a 2 sqaure foot window open year round, prior to my sealing. I am in a custom built brick and stucco home 35 years old...2x 10 joists, etc., well built, so think of the gaps you might be facing in a home built years ago before insulation was code...
Watching my heat bills, I ESTIMATE MY GAS CONSUMTION DROPPED AT LEAST 10% with this project and all I did so far was seal and reinstall the old fibreglass in the joist bays. I have since upgraded the furnace, to HE and consumption in March is down over 35%
This is NOT an afternoon project but you can do it right and kill that draft if you take the time
Chemist1961 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2009, 11:17 AM   #37
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 56
Default

Insulating to stop air infiltration in the basement.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chemist1961 View Post
DIY4life,
You mentioned RETRO as a foam type. If you are referring to Retrofoam (as a brand )it was banned last month in Canada by the Governement and the Canadian distributor who happens to be located in my area has been put on hold pending further testing.
Re the rim joist, this is tricky work over an existing framed wall but if you want it done right don't think of it as a 3 hour fix. I have an unfinished 1200 ft basement and I did the entire rim and sill and each joist bay, top bottom and sides. While it may be overkill I wanted it done right once. You need to get your head into each and every space or get a mechanics mirror and inspect the blind spots to do this right. You should also inspect your work the same way when done. This is one of the benefits of spray foam as it will expand into(clean) blinds spots. Although a can is great for tight spots you will need large tanks to fill entire joist bays and the product is different from Great Stuff. You might want to read up on Tiger Foam, etc as a DIY product.
( Roxul is a Canadian product so it may be very hard to locate in your area)
I found several gaps I never knew I had and a 42" section of sill plate missing entirely below a pantry overhanging my garage which I rebuilt with wood and inserted from the inside. It has made a huge difference.

If you want to keep the mice out and not end up with moisture and draft behind your finished walls, you need to go at this one wall at a time and be meticulous. I have seen mice eat through spray foam (Great Stuff) in my garage door frame.
If this helps to put it inperspective, an Energy Audit revealed my leakage to be equal to a 144" hole... or, yes a 2 sqaure foot window open year round, prior to my sealing. I am in a custom built brick and stucco home 35 years old...2x 10 joists, etc., well built, so think of the gaps you might be facing in a home built years ago before insulation was code...
Watching my heat bills, I ESTIMATE MY GAS CONSUMTION DROPPED AT LEAST 10% with this project and all I did so far was seal and reinstall the old fibreglass in the joist bays. I have since upgraded the furnace, to HE and consumption in March is down over 35%
This is NOT an afternoon project but you can do it right and kill that draft if you take the time

Here is an updated image of my situation....



As you can see, my basement cinder block wall is porous such that outside air is entering the walls gaps and directly hitting my rim joists which in turn makes my walls and floors feel cold.

I have been think about spray foam to get this fixed, but they are expensive. Plus, I don't know if there will be enough in those two canisters for the whole project. My four basement walls have that gaps. I am not looking to completely fill them. Just enough to keep the outside air away from the rim joists. That way my floor and the walls will feel comfortable and thus keeping the living space warmer. Right now, I have plastic bags filled with pink pather insulations and stuffed them in these holes and blocked the rim joists with 1inch foam with mylor siding. It has made it somewhat comfortable but still it could be better.
__________________
Life is tough, but it is even more tougher when a person is stupid.
diy4life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2009, 01:24 PM   #38
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 395
Default

Insulating to stop air infiltration in the basement.


not sure if this adds any value to the thread but here's my experience fwiw...

I used Roxul for my entire addition - upstairs and crawl space - yes spray foam would have been my #1 pick if I had the budget - Roxul (installing myself) was approx 1/4 to 1/3 the cost of getting foam. I does a really nice job, IMHO....

In my crawlspace (3' high block walls) I did what Chemist1961 recommended - a few cans of Dow spray foam - ran a good bead along sides, top and bottom of every joist bay - tedious work but solid result. Then I cut Roxul (R22) to fit the voids - nice clean snug fit in every one. Roxul is great to work with - a bit dusty but otherwise much better than fiberglass. You can shove a blow torch in this stuff - it will not burn. I think it also has boric acid in the mix so critters don't like it (so I've been told - but I could be mistaken). No organic material in the batts - so the batts themselves don't support mold growth.

Using leftover pieces from the upstairs work, and a couple new bags, I did the whole rim joist area (downstairs in the crawl) for about $100 - including a couple new bags of Roxul, a half dozen small cans of foam - plus there's my time invested. Probably would have used another bag if I didn't have leftover pieces from the upstairs work - adding another $30 CDN to the cost. (I spread the work out over a few days but probably could have wrapped it up in one long day. Time will tell if there are any moisture / mold issues, and I'll inspect it regularly to see how it's holding up, but I can say that with a good dehumidifier in the crawl (Thermastor SantaFe Advance) the space is relatively warm and dry and very comfortable to work in all the time. I did use poly under the slab, and insulated the outside walls with rigid styro, so it's overall fairly weather proof, but this final piece of insulating work in the rim joist areas was the icing on the cake. I think Roxul is great.

Yeah, all the suppliers here ran out late last year - waited several weeks for my backorder to finish my upstairs work - the stuff flies off the shelf. I thought I read somewhere that another plant was scheduled to go live in Milton, ON this year to meet demand.

anyway, hope this helps....
rtoni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2009, 10:48 AM   #39
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: South Western Ontario
Posts: 955
Default

Insulating to stop air infiltration in the basement.


I don't mean to knock your efforts here. Just trying to understand the actual scale of the picture. I think your cinderblock would be 3" or thicker.
Your rim joist would normally be 1 layer 2x8 or 2X10 on edge and your main floor wall would sit above the rim joist covering half of it.
Can you put some dimensions on your pic so the gap and wall thickness are acccurate.
Regardless I think you will need to open the top 8" of your interior walls in the basement to seal the gaps at the rim joist and insulate the joist bays as well.... what ever method ...properly.
I would go one step further and inuslate with expansion foam below and behind all the baseboard on the main floor and every corner of any partition wall where it meets the outside wall, even closets. this will elimnate draft creeping along the floor . I would also fill every receptacle or switch box on exterior walls as the draft may be coming in from above or below.
Chemist1961 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2009, 04:27 PM   #40
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 80
Default

Insulating to stop air infiltration in the basement.


I don't know if I'm too late to help but the OP, but here goes.

My house was built circa 1914 and was freezing when I moved into it. I did a lot of research and wound up using Demilec open cell on my entire roof deck. That made a huge difference in my finished 3rd floor attic, but the first floor was still frigid. I finally got my 1st floor bathroom insulated and had the Demilec sprayed all around the rim joists in the basement. My heating bill dropped about $150 between January and February as a result. (Not a scientific apples to apples comparision, but the difference was large.)

To get the rim joists done was about $340. That's roughly 120' around the perimeter.

My foundation is poured. With the hollow blocks, I would think you'd have a couple of options. 1) the pour-in minimally expanding insulation (assuming it's not being banned in the U.S. as well) and 2) the same expanding stuff, but it's a little more difficult to install than 1) in this case.

Here are links to a few companies:

http://icynene.com/
http://www.demilecusa.com/
http://www.emegabuild.com/
http://retrofoam.com/
http://www.usainsulation.net/
pmoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2009, 09:25 PM   #41
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 56
Default

Insulating to stop air infiltration in the basement.


Thank you for your information.

Same here my house felt really cold - in fact just as cold as it was outside when fall started.

My problem is not fixing the air infiltration, but how can I get it fix when I can't get complete access to these cinder block gaps. I recently ran a tape measure into the cinder block to see how far down it will go. It went about 10ft. There are about 90% blind spots for this fix. I am just stuck not knowing what to do. I don't really have the kind of money to get a contractor to come and fix the problem. So, I am looking for some simple but reliable solution.

I will check those links and also I will take a some pictures of my basement walls and post them here.

I am really think hard about spray expanding foam like tiger foam or icyene.
__________________
Life is tough, but it is even more tougher when a person is stupid.
diy4life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2009, 12:05 AM   #42
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 80
Default

Insulating to stop air infiltration in the basement.


Quote:
Originally Posted by diy4life View Post
My problem is not fixing the air infiltration, but how can I get it fix when I can't get complete access to these cinder block gaps.
If you hired a contractor, they would drill 3/4" or so pilot holes in the finished wall to access that gap, and then use a wall injection tip to spray.
pmoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2009, 10:17 AM   #43
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 395
Default

Insulating to stop air infiltration in the basement.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chemist1961 View Post
I would go one step further and inuslate with expansion foam below and behind all the baseboard on the main floor and every corner of any partition wall where it meets the outside wall, even closets. this will elimnate draft creeping along the floor . I would also fill every receptacle or switch box on exterior walls as the draft may be coming in from above or below.
thanks for the info on insulating behind baseboards, etc. - will keep this in mind and run a bead when the trim goes on in my project.

question - how do you fill the boxes - does the electrical code allow this? (I thought I read somewhere that foam around the boxes is ok but the airspace inside the box has to be maintained - not sure if I've got that right..?)
rtoni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2009, 04:40 PM   #44
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: South Western Ontario
Posts: 955
Default

Insulating to stop air infiltration in the basement.


Insulate around the outside of the box and get the foam cutouts that sit behind the receptacle and switch covers.
I have the cutouts as yet unintsalled but infra red led scanning and foaming doing the baseboards in my home was a huge help. I have yet to do the top floor but noticed cold pockets where closet walls meet outside walls
Chemist1961 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2009, 09:08 PM   #45
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: West Michigan
Posts: 4,098
Default

Insulating to stop air infiltration in the basement.


If you don't mind me asking, how do you get the foam to surround the outside of the box? Most of the boxes here have the drywall cut close enough that I can't fit the Great Stuff straw through.

The only way I could see to do it, was to stick the straw through the hole on the top of the box where the wires come through.

gma2rjc is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Spray foam insulating joists in basement? peethree Building & Construction 13 11-28-2010 08:54 AM
Insulating my basement luweee Building & Construction 9 02-19-2009 08:01 AM
Insulating unfinshed basement ceiling for sound daveyd Building & Construction 38 02-02-2009 10:57 AM
stop water from leaking into basement? njhomer General DIY Discussions 5 01-26-2009 10:03 AM
Insulating a unfiinshed basement govikes Building & Construction 7 03-26-2007 04:55 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.