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Old 03-07-2012, 08:00 AM   #1
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Insulated siding questions


Need new siding. Currently, The house is aluminum siding applied directly over celotex (blackboard). The Hardie folks said not to use their product on a celotex house. I like the wide panel look of aluminum, so my option appears to be 7inch insulated vinyl siding. I m hoping the insulated vinyl will eliminated the wavy, buckled look of thinner vinyl siding.

I am down to two choices available in my area. Mastic Structure Eps and Certainteed Cedarboards. The Mastic looks better made including a double nail hem but Certainteed has a far better color selection and is marked every 16 inches to help find the house studs. Could someone familiar with these two products tell me if one is better than the other?

Since nails wont hold in celotex, how difficult is it for the installer to locate and hang the wrap and siding to each house stud? Is it OK to staple the wrap to the celotex and let the nailed siding pin it to the house?

Since celotex is not a very straight product will the rigid insulted siding make the house look straighter or will it exaggerate the problem.?

Thanks for your help.

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Old 03-07-2012, 08:57 AM   #2
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Need new siding. Currently, The house is aluminum siding applied directly over celotex (blackboard). The Hardie folks said not to use their product on a celotex house. I like the wide panel look of aluminum, so my option appears to be 7inch insulated vinyl siding. I m hoping the insulated vinyl will eliminated the wavy, buckled look of thinner vinyl siding.

I am down to two choices available in my area. Mastic Structure Eps and Certainteed Cedarboards. The Mastic looks better made including a double nail hem but Certainteed has a far better color selection and is marked every 16 inches to help find the house studs. Could someone familiar with these two products tell me if one is better than the other?

Since nails wont hold in celotex, how difficult is it for the installer to locate and hang the wrap and siding to each house stud? Is it OK to staple the wrap to the celotex and let the nailed siding pin it to the house?

Since celotex is not a very straight product will the rigid insulted siding make the house look straighter or will it exaggerate the problem.?

Thanks for your help.
There is plywood or OSB in all the outside corners, right? If not there should have been for shear strength.
Not sure where you came up with the last question. The siding will look as straight as it's installed. We use a self leveling lazer level when setting up to do siding, it's really important when doing older homes or ones with all kinds of additions.
Once it's marked out the starter stips can be install within 1/4 in 300 ft. or better.
I've never been a big fan of insulated siding, reasons being it cost about 3 times as much, harder to install, you still have some air gaps at the over laps and in every outside corner and around all the windows and doors just like with regular siding.
Fan fold with tapes on the seams will give almost as much insulation value and less seams.
The reasons siding buckles has a lot more to do with how it was installed not the material. Nail it to tight, cut it to long and any siding will buckle. Siding is hung from the wall, not attached tight to it.
We nail the house wrap to the studs under the Celotex, not staple it when it's installed over Celotex, staples will have 0 holding power. Celotex is so flimmy it's not hard to find the studs under the wrap if your going to skip the fan fold. Without the nails it would be impossible to pull tight.
I have never found the marks every 16" very helpful, reasons being if the first piece is not installed exactly right the rest will be off and it takes longer to lay it out.
All these ideas are strickly my opions, I'm sure others will be right behind me jumping all over what I have said, that's ok, I'm used to it.

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Old 03-07-2012, 09:37 AM   #3
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Insulated siding questions


At least you're used to it... I like insulated siding, but just know what it is and is not. It will give you the option of a wider face (like 7"), the face is much flatter (as opposed to the "cupped" look of hollow core), and it is more rigid. If done properly with higher end accessories, it is the closest that you'll come to a cedar siding look with the exception of some composites. What it is not- is a huge energy saver. It is better than fanfold without a doubt (when coupled with a house wrap), but you can achieve the same if not better energy efficiency with a thicker xps board behind hollow core.
I'm not sure where the 3 x's more expensive comment comes from, as I sell it for about the same price as .046 hollow with 1/2 xps... For anybody that does charge 3 x's more, I'd say that it is not worth the premium.
On the install stuff, I generally agree with joe.
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Old 03-07-2012, 09:44 AM   #4
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I'm basing my siding cost from a quote receved from two differant siding distributors in VA.
We had to do a whole church with the 7" exposure. I was shock when I got the price.
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Old 03-07-2012, 03:38 PM   #5
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I'm basing my siding cost from a quote receved from two differant siding distributors in VA.
We had to do a whole church with the 7" exposure. I was shock when I got the price.
I don't know what to tell ya other than to shop around a little bit more. Like I mentioned above, I pay about the same for Crane board as I do for .046 hollow and 1/2" xps. Maybe very slightly more, but its close enough that I price them the same. I find people are generally happier with the finished product of the insulated.
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Old 03-07-2012, 04:29 PM   #6
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[quote=joecaption;872614]There is plywood or OSB in all the outside corners, right? If not there should have been for shear strength.

Maybe not. The fact that the house is sheathed in "blackboard" instead of osb or plywood tells me that the corners are most likely braces with a diagonal 1x4 let into the studs and plates; typical before plywood became the norm.
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Old 03-07-2012, 07:04 PM   #7
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I do not believe there is any plywood or OSB on the corners. The neighbor's house was done last year and all I remember seeing was blackboard.

The quotes I have received so far are running about 20-30% higher to use insulated siding over non-insulated. I am also in Virginia (Vienna).
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Old 03-07-2012, 07:33 PM   #8
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Insulated siding questions


Either brand you mentioned are fine.

You most likely have what is known as let in bracing on the corners which is fine. Most houses of the era do not have ply or osb in the corners.

If this is DIY, it will be somewhat of a challenge to find the studs at first. if it is not DIY, then the installers should have no problems finding the studs.

Good luck.
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Old 03-07-2012, 08:24 PM   #9
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Insulated siding questions


James Hardie actually says you can't use it over Celotex?
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Old 03-07-2012, 09:24 PM   #10
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Quote:
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Need new siding. Currently, The house is aluminum siding applied directly over celotex (blackboard). The Hardie folks said not to use their product on a celotex house. I like the wide panel look of aluminum, so my option appears to be 7inch insulated vinyl siding. I ‘m hoping the insulated vinyl will eliminated the wavy, buckled look of thinner vinyl siding.
Ever think of Wood???

You'll never get 50-100 years out a vinyl siding, except in a landfill.
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Last edited by kwikfishron; 03-07-2012 at 09:27 PM.
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Old 03-08-2012, 11:13 AM   #11
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Insulated siding questions


Tom,
James Hardie recommended that I re-sheath the house in plywood or OSB before I use their product. They seemed to be concern about the weight of the product and the fact that I can only attach at the stud locations. They indicated that there are many contractors who will install Hardie over celotex but it is not how they recommend using the product.
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Old 03-08-2012, 11:33 AM   #12
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Ever think of Wood???

You'll never get 50-100 years out a vinyl siding, except in a landfill.

Why not 50-100 years with vinyl?

I already have 34 years of vinyl on my house.....
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Old 03-08-2012, 08:44 PM   #13
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Why not 50-100 years with vinyl?

I already have 34 years of vinyl on my house.....

Well Im happy for you 52, and Im sure it looks just beautiful.

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