Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Building & Construction

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-06-2012, 08:51 AM   #1
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 4
Share |
Default

Install larger size joists or a beam?


We bought an old house with the original parts built in the 20's or 30's with maybe three sections added throughout the years. Oddly enough, as much issues as we have with old sagging floors in the old part of the house, the worst problems seem to be with the newest addition built about 1995 and that is the garage with an attic storage room over it. The older parts of this house are framed with oak. The contractor the lady hired to do the work on the living room and garage didn't do the garage properly.

It is aprox. 20X20 and they used 2X6's for the ceiling joists. They also did a poor job of framing the joists around the chimney ( 7' across of cement block that goes from the foundation up into the attic), and where they cut in for ladder access to the attic room. The attic room has never been finished but they did put in knee walls. The beams run east to west, the chimney is on the north wall and the attic access is directly across from that on the south wall.

I see two options, one is a beam, of course, but I'm thinking that isn't as straight forward as it seems being that the middle of the room would run right from the chimney to the attic access and the attic access can't really be moved and still leave good headroom to get up there. If I used beams I'm almost thinking I'd have to use two one on either side of the chimney, instead of the middle and if I did this would the supports for the beam have to be iron?

What seems more logical is replacing the 2X6 joists with the appropiate size joists. I don't mind tearing out the sheet rock as it is already trying to come off in places and has cracked in places but I wonder about removing those knee walls, as I think they are helping support the roof. Could I put in temporary collar ties, tear out the knee walls, replace the joists with a larger size, then rebuild the knee walls? I don't want a roof collapse while trying to fix it!!

At some point we might use the garage and attic space as additional living space, so I would not want do anything that would interfere with the cosmetics of that, such as iron or metal posts that couldn't be covered up, I wouldn't mind beams.

Also, as I see in several posts I've read, people mentioning permits and codes... we live in a rural area and are not required to get a permit and there are few codes (which is probably how the contractor got away with this). We however want to do this right, and know that we could use the attic room for storage or even a living space without any problems.

Am open to any suggestions!

ardlnewman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2012, 10:58 AM   #2
Contractor
 
aureliconstruct's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Boston
Posts: 11
Default

Install larger size joists or a beam?


instead of replacing them, you can sister them with other 2x6's or even 2x8's. Just make sure that they end up tight on the ends as well as adding some simpson ties at the ends as well. Stagger the nails when you sister the joists in a zig zag pattern and do not skimp out on the nails.

aureliconstruct is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2012, 11:11 AM   #3
I ask the impossible!
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Royal Oak, Michigan
Posts: 1,061
Blog Entries: 7
Default

Install larger size joists or a beam?


Filling in the area where you live in your profile is helpful, a potential contributor to sagging is improper insulation and/or ventilation which could cause moisture problems.
__________________
Please do NOT consider any "before" picture of my house as any kind of endorsement of any particular construction method. In fact, you should probably assume that if I post a "before" picture, I am posting it because I am soliciting advice on a proper replacement for one of MANY things done wrong by a previous owner.
WillK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2012, 11:14 AM   #4
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 4
Default

Install larger size joists or a beam?


Thank you! How would I go about that, with the existing joists sagging? Would I use a jack to get the existing joists up, then attach the new ones? I can't use a 2x8 unless I take out the knee walls first, and it just looks like they are carrying part of the load, even if they were not meant to.
ardlnewman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2012, 11:42 AM   #5
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 4
Default

Install larger size joists or a beam?


Quote:
Originally Posted by WillK View Post
Filling in the area where you live in your profile is helpful, a potential contributor to sagging is improper insulation and/or ventilation which could cause moisture problems.
Sorry, I am in NW Arkansas. There was no insulation in this area. We have blown in insulation to the whole attic except this space (which is separate from the rest of the attic), as we don't want to add any weight to it, until we get it fixed. Of course, since this is a storage room (they had placed plywood up there but never nailed it down), insulation wouldn't be blown in but we will be adding it between the rafters.

There doesn't appear to be any moisture problems. Everything appears to be dry and there are no mold or mildew problems. The ventilation seems adaquate. No other part of the house has these issues. The living room was built on at the same time but for some reason they used 2X8's and it is a 15' span, but they used the 2X6's out there, with a 20' span.

Also, I read your post this morning showing your crawl space........ yuck, mine is the same way (under the old sections of the house), no room to crawl around hardly, sagging joists because of no support and it is supported by stacked stone, which someone then applied concrete to the outside of!
ardlnewman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2012, 01:13 PM   #6
Framing Contractor
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 1,059
Default

Install larger size joists or a beam?


If those 2x6's are spanning 20', no amount of sistering will help them. With that span to support a livable floor, I think you need at the very least 2x10's 16" on center. I bet the roof framing is inadequate also. Some pics would sure be helpful.
sixeightten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2012, 01:43 PM   #7
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 4
Default

Install larger size joists or a beam?


That is kind of what I thought.

I have not went up in this area much, as I don't even want to walk on it, so I just pulled the ladder down to snap a few pics and realized something I'd never really noticed. They don't even have ceiling joists attached to the top of the wall, they have attached these things two feet down, just nailed to the studs!!! Makes sense that it would have been 10 foot walls, as the rest of the house has 10 foot walls, I just never thought about it. So, the head space up there should have been 8 feet, instead of the 10 feet there is.

Would I be able to simply solve this problem by installing 2X10 or 2X12's where they should be, then rip the 2X6's out? That would take away the possibility of a real room ever being up there but it would still be fine for storage, and be stable.

As far as the roof, it appears ok, it is 2X6's on 16" centers and the wall studs are 2X6's. If that is a problem, I don't mind making that repair while I'm fixing the other, how-ever if that is a problem, then that carries across the living room, which is in the picture behind the duct work, as it is also 2X6 construction but with real ceiling joists that are where they belong!
Attached Thumbnails
Install larger size joists or a beam?-attic-001.jpg   Install larger size joists or a beam?-attic-002.jpg  

Last edited by ardlnewman; 02-06-2012 at 01:48 PM.
ardlnewman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2012, 01:50 PM   #8
Framing Contractor
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 1,059
Default

Install larger size joists or a beam?


Truthfully, you need to have this evaluated by an engineer on site. The couple hundred bucks spent there will be a great investment. The roof rafters may or may not be ok. Walls probably are, but who knows. Contact a local lumber yard or your local builders association and I am sure they can hook you up with a competent engineer. Sounds like you want to do things the right way, and this would definitely be the right first step.
sixeightten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2012, 07:55 PM   #9
Member
 
robertcdf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
Posts: 655
Default

Install larger size joists or a beam?


I second getting an engineer in to evaluate the situation, it will be money well spent.
robertcdf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2012, 07:57 PM   #10
Member
 
robertcdf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
Posts: 655
Default

Install larger size joists or a beam?


Take a look at this site for (limited) info but he is right, I also don't like the joists not being on the top plate of the walls. http://www.unified-eng.com/ch/thrust.html

robertcdf is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
beams, joist support, sagging joists


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Garage ceiling joists and beam question Truth Building & Construction 8 01-05-2012 07:52 PM
Drop beam under floor joists gwr Building & Construction 9 03-09-2011 07:40 PM
What size ridge beam do I need? madeshotels Building & Construction 5 04-19-2010 09:24 PM
How to add another support beam under floor joists LOStouten Carpentry 3 11-13-2008 10:55 PM
Beam Size sevver Carpentry 15 04-30-2008 12:51 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.