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Old 12-23-2013, 11:24 AM   #16
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I have to notch a floor joist


Quote:
Originally Posted by fred54 View Post
trying to respond in order.

What was there in the first place was hideous, and not readily available anymore, most shower pans have a center drain, and that is what the new design calls for.

The pipe is high in the joist cavity because it comes up from the outside wall high, and access to that area is not easily possible.

I might have an architect/engineer friend of mine take a look.

Trying to make this job easy as possible but of course need to do it right.

Luckily I have time to ask for multiple opinions and I appreciate all the responses.
make your own shower pan! here is a video on how to do it. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=289z0qj...%3D289z0qjzH5A

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Old 12-23-2013, 11:43 AM   #17
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I have to notch a floor joist


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Originally Posted by Anti-wingnut View Post
It will take a engineer on site with a tape measure to give you an engineered solution. A vendor with no load numbers can't do anything
It's an engineered repair - it has to meet the original lumber strength. Just like if it was cut in half and the joist was subsequently replaced, you don't have to engineer the rest of the structure.
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Old 12-23-2013, 11:54 AM   #18
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I have to notch a floor joist


I would disagree. It is an engineered solution is the engineer of record concurs. But if not, it is just the vendors word for it in an application where it may not be appropriate
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Old 12-23-2013, 12:24 PM   #19
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I have to notch a floor joist


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Originally Posted by Anti-wingnut View Post
I would disagree. It is an engineered solution is the engineer of record concurs. But if not, it is just the vendors word for it in an application where it may not be appropriate
Rather than spending too much time disagreeing, I'll point out that GCs depend on component engineering done by vendors all the time. They're engineered to certain specs, and they aren't always guaranteed to work in a given application - just to meet specs. Trusses are an obvious example.

All I can say is when I have a floor joist repaired and it requires an engineer's stamp, my engineer only engineers the repair to make it equivalent strength to what was there (barring obvious signs it was over stressed to begin with), he doesn't go back and redo all the calculations needed for him to take full liability for the structure. He's only guaranteeing that the repair is not going to be a weak spot / built in failure point.

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Old 12-23-2013, 12:37 PM   #20
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I have to notch a floor joist


The engineer of record still accepts it
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Old 12-23-2013, 12:50 PM   #21
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I have to notch a floor joist


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Originally Posted by fred54 View Post
The pipe is high in the joist cavity because it comes up from the outside wall high, and access to that area is not easily possible.
I am starting to see the picture, but would still suggest that if you have to open up a section of drywall to access the pipe, that's still a small task in the overall scope of the project.
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Old 12-25-2013, 07:25 AM   #22
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I have to notch a floor joist


How is the elevation of the pipe going to change enough in 16 inches to need a notch in the top of the joist?

Isn't it centered now? wouldn't the pitch only increase by a little over 1/4"?

I may have missed something----
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Old 12-25-2013, 08:18 AM   #23
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I have to notch a floor joist


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How is the elevation of the pipe going to change enough in 16 inches to need a notch in the top of the joist?

Isn't it centered now? wouldn't the pitch only increase by a little over 1/4"?

I may have missed something----
The drawing way back shows it stays in a single bay all the way out to the outside wall right now - he's moving it over a bay.
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Old 12-26-2013, 09:14 AM   #24
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I have to notch a floor joist


I'm going today to pull out a kitchen cabinet and cut out some sheetrock from downstairs to see if I can reroute the pipe to the next bay over.

Mike the pipe comes out of the wall high and runs just under the floor at the top of the joist, due to the overhang, I can't access it where it originates only where it ends up.

I'll take some pictures.
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Old 12-26-2013, 08:06 PM   #25
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Open the floor instead---cut out the T- and lower it---Yes ,it's a pain---but doable.
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Old 12-27-2013, 05:37 PM   #26
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took a peek below and it just gets worse. this 2" pipe drops into a spaghetti junction of 3" tees and elbows. I'd have to cut away a whole slew of the drywall and replumb the main stack and drain to squeeze this pipe over.

Instead, I will stretch under the wall from above, cut this pipe below the elbow and install a new pipe low enough in the cavity that I can drill a 21/2" hole in the center of the joist.

My only beef with that is that I don't like making horizontal turns in drain pipe and I'll have to have a steeper pitch than I'd like to fit the trap under the shower. I think that structurally I should be OK though.
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Old 12-27-2013, 06:27 PM   #27
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There is a tool called a 'ram bit' that will allow you to remove a pipe from a glued fitting--could you get the elevation that you need if you could remove the riser pipe in the photo?
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Old 12-27-2013, 07:04 PM   #28
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I have to notch a floor joist


Was there originally a tub or shower in this area before? Wherever the original drain was for the previous tub or shower, you should have a joist on either side of where the drain exited from above through the sub-floor.

You are going to have to do the same, so that you carry the load on the joist that is not going to be notched, if you have no choice to do so. It may end up meaning doing a joist on the front & back of where the drain comes down, so that you have the load carried on either side of the drain pipe.

If this is on a second floor, that will of course mean some demo on the first floor or basement floor, where you have to do the piping for the dwv.
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Old 12-27-2013, 10:33 PM   #29
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I have to notch a floor joist


Move some insulation /plywood sheathing in the wall facing the attic crawlspace to cut floor access hole (on other side of wall- directly over wall below) to drill hole through dividing joist, cut horizontal line 3" from down ell 90 to add a side l 90 to go through the joist OVER the bearing wall below. 1st pic, post 26, second pic. make your 90* over a bay over the wall plate below, not out in mid-span with top story wall bearing. Hey, it's late.... make your joist change over the wall below, accessing floor on other side of pictured wall.

Gary
PS. just swing the bottom of a stud over for access, even if you need plywood sheathing nails cut if wall is long enough, and presuming it is sheathed.
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Old 12-28-2013, 04:52 PM   #30
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I have to notch a floor joist


I think I must be really bad at explaining myself.
The pipe in the picture runs under the exterior second story wall, out about a foot and a half under a small roof and the drops into a 3" horizontal pipe that is in a soffit in the first floor.
3" pipe is all elbows and connectors and would be difficult to replumb without really gutting a lot of the first floor kitchen.


The plan is to cut the vertical pipe between the two elbows in the second picture, and attach a new elbow and pipe thus lowering the pipe coming toward the camera so that I can drill a 3" hole dead center in the joist directly below the second floor exterior wall. This is approximately 22" from the exterior wall upon which this joist sits. This way there is no notch, only a hole.

It will be a pain because the only way to reach the pipe to make this cut is to lay on the floor, stretch under the wall, and cut blindly. I've done worse. It will be no easier from down below, even with a significant portion of the ceiling removed.

The concerns that leaves me with now is that I will have a 90 degree horizontal bend through the joist, and I don't like horizontal bends on drain pipe, and I will have to pitch the pipe up about 2" over 2 feet to make room for the trap. It is going to be ugly. And of course I have to make sure that the hole is allowable where I am going to make it.
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