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Old 12-22-2013, 10:10 AM   #1
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I have to notch a floor joist


and I am paranoid. Replacing a shower pan that had an offset drain with one that has a center drain. I need to move the pipe one joist bay over. The pipe runs just under the floor due to the pitch and therefore must be notched at the top.

It is a 30 year old house with 2 X 10's on 16" centers. 2 1/2" X 2 1/2" notch is too large by code based on what I've read. If you look at the attached drawing that looks like it was made by an 8-year-old, you can see what I have.

It will be a shower pan and not a bathtub, and I can make the notch about 8" from the exterior wall where there will be a bench seat so I have some space where I can beef up the top of the joist.

My notch will be in the first third of the joist but you can see from my drawing that it is holding up the exterior wall because the first floor wall is 2 feet further out.

I could notch this and run the pipe and probably nothing would happen but I am paranoid.

What is the right way?
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Old 12-22-2013, 10:11 AM   #2
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I have to notch a floor joist


and I should add that I can't get to the stack without major downstairs demolition. I need to do this from above.

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Old 12-22-2013, 10:58 AM   #3
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I have to notch a floor joist


The prescriptive rules for notching joists are well defined. You can only notch in the outer thirds, and you can only notch a depth of 1/6 the ACTUAL (not nominal) joist depth. If notching at the end, you can do 1/4 joist depth. The max length of the notch is not specified, but its generally accepted to be 1/3 the joist depth. These rules apply equally to headers and beams.

Local code may be more restrictive.
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Old 12-22-2013, 11:48 AM   #4
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I have to notch a floor joist


I am aware of the code which is the cause of my dilemma, otherwise I would ignore it and hack away. What I need is a fix that will let me move the pipe where it needs to be while properly maintaining the structure.
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Old 12-22-2013, 12:09 PM   #5
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I have to notch a floor joist


why not put a offset in drain to raise it up and go through the center third of the joist
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Old 12-22-2013, 12:12 PM   #6
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I have to notch a floor joist


due to the pitch it is already at the top of the joist plus the height allows for the trap.
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Old 12-22-2013, 12:20 PM   #7
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I have to notch a floor joist


One of these may fit the space you're working with:

http://metwoodstore.com/

I wouldn't notch that joist without an engineered solution.
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Old 12-22-2013, 12:40 PM   #8
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I have to notch a floor joist


From a framers perspective:

What is the span of the joist that would need notched? If it is near max of allowable span, then I would be concerned. If it is actually oversized, I would be less concerned. From your pic it looks like there may be a support wall 7' away. If that is true, a 2x8 could easily span that.
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Old 12-22-2013, 12:59 PM   #9
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I have to notch a floor joist


sorry i missed the part were you said notch at the top
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Old 12-22-2013, 01:14 PM   #10
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I have to notch a floor joist


Quote:
Originally Posted by sixeightten View Post
From a framers perspective:

What is the span of the joist that would need notched? If it is near max of allowable span, then I would be concerned. If it is actually oversized, I would be less concerned. From your pic it looks like there may be a support wall 7' away. If that is true, a 2x8 could easily span that.
Except from my reading his drawing shows the second floor walls / roof is a line load 2' in on those joists. There's no way to tell what the design load was.
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Old 12-23-2013, 09:11 AM   #11
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I have to notch a floor joist


it is definitely not oversized. The drawing was trying to show that these joists support the exterior wall/roof of the second floor and that that wall is 2' in from the supports below.

Looks like eandjsdad suggestion is a good one I will seek out an engineered solution from metwoodstore.


Thanks.
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Old 12-23-2013, 09:36 AM   #12
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I have to notch a floor joist


well the simplest solution is to put back what was there in the first place.
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Old 12-23-2013, 10:16 AM   #13
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I have to notch a floor joist


Quote:
Originally Posted by fred54 View Post
due to the pitch it is already at the top of the joist plus the height allows for the trap.
I can't quite picture why you can't put a hole in the center. I found this pic on the internet. I understand you are going to run towards the wall a while before going across, but I don't see why this does not work for you.
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Old 12-23-2013, 10:26 AM   #14
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I have to notch a floor joist


Quote:
Originally Posted by fred54 View Post
I will seek out an engineered solution from metwoodstore
It will take a engineer on site with a tape measure to give you an engineered solution. A vendor with no load numbers can't do anything
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Old 12-23-2013, 11:10 AM   #15
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I have to notch a floor joist


trying to respond in order.

What was there in the first place was hideous, and not readily available anymore, most shower pans have a center drain, and that is what the new design calls for.

The pipe is high in the joist cavity because it comes up from the outside wall high, and access to that area is not easily possible.

I might have an architect/engineer friend of mine take a look.

Trying to make this job easy as possible but of course need to do it right.

Luckily I have time to ask for multiple opinions and I appreciate all the responses.

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