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-   -   I have to notch a floor joist (http://www.diychatroom.com/f19/i-have-notch-floor-joist-192461/)

fred54 12-22-2013 10:10 AM

I have to notch a floor joist
 
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and I am paranoid. Replacing a shower pan that had an offset drain with one that has a center drain. I need to move the pipe one joist bay over. The pipe runs just under the floor due to the pitch and therefore must be notched at the top.

It is a 30 year old house with 2 X 10's on 16" centers. 2 1/2" X 2 1/2" notch is too large by code based on what I've read. If you look at the attached drawing that looks like it was made by an 8-year-old, you can see what I have.

It will be a shower pan and not a bathtub, and I can make the notch about 8" from the exterior wall where there will be a bench seat so I have some space where I can beef up the top of the joist.

My notch will be in the first third of the joist but you can see from my drawing that it is holding up the exterior wall because the first floor wall is 2 feet further out.

I could notch this and run the pipe and probably nothing would happen but I am paranoid.

What is the right way?

fred54 12-22-2013 10:11 AM

and I should add that I can't get to the stack without major downstairs demolition. I need to do this from above.

cortell 12-22-2013 10:58 AM

The prescriptive rules for notching joists are well defined. You can only notch in the outer thirds, and you can only notch a depth of 1/6 the ACTUAL (not nominal) joist depth. If notching at the end, you can do 1/4 joist depth. The max length of the notch is not specified, but its generally accepted to be 1/3 the joist depth. These rules apply equally to headers and beams.

Local code may be more restrictive.

fred54 12-22-2013 11:48 AM

I am aware of the code which is the cause of my dilemma, otherwise I would ignore it and hack away. What I need is a fix that will let me move the pipe where it needs to be while properly maintaining the structure.

jaydevries 12-22-2013 12:09 PM

why not put a offset in drain to raise it up and go through the center third of the joist

fred54 12-22-2013 12:12 PM

due to the pitch it is already at the top of the joist plus the height allows for the trap.

eandjsdad 12-22-2013 12:20 PM

One of these may fit the space you're working with:

http://metwoodstore.com/

I wouldn't notch that joist without an engineered solution.

sixeightten 12-22-2013 12:40 PM

From a framers perspective:

What is the span of the joist that would need notched? If it is near max of allowable span, then I would be concerned. If it is actually oversized, I would be less concerned. From your pic it looks like there may be a support wall 7' away. If that is true, a 2x8 could easily span that.

jaydevries 12-22-2013 12:59 PM

sorry i missed the part were you said notch at the top

eandjsdad 12-22-2013 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixeightten (Post 1281556)
From a framers perspective:

What is the span of the joist that would need notched? If it is near max of allowable span, then I would be concerned. If it is actually oversized, I would be less concerned. From your pic it looks like there may be a support wall 7' away. If that is true, a 2x8 could easily span that.

Except from my reading his drawing shows the second floor walls / roof is a line load 2' in on those joists. There's no way to tell what the design load was.

fred54 12-23-2013 09:11 AM

it is definitely not oversized. The drawing was trying to show that these joists support the exterior wall/roof of the second floor and that that wall is 2' in from the supports below.

Looks like eandjsdad suggestion is a good one I will seek out an engineered solution from metwoodstore.


Thanks.

Nailbags 12-23-2013 09:36 AM

well the simplest solution is to put back what was there in the first place.

SPS-1 12-23-2013 10:16 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by fred54 (Post 1281538)
due to the pitch it is already at the top of the joist plus the height allows for the trap.

I can't quite picture why you can't put a hole in the center. I found this pic on the internet. I understand you are going to run towards the wall a while before going across, but I don't see why this does not work for you.

Anti-wingnut 12-23-2013 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fred54 (Post 1281890)
I will seek out an engineered solution from metwoodstore

It will take a engineer on site with a tape measure to give you an engineered solution. A vendor with no load numbers can't do anything

fred54 12-23-2013 11:10 AM

trying to respond in order.

What was there in the first place was hideous, and not readily available anymore, most shower pans have a center drain, and that is what the new design calls for.

The pipe is high in the joist cavity because it comes up from the outside wall high, and access to that area is not easily possible.

I might have an architect/engineer friend of mine take a look.

Trying to make this job easy as possible but of course need to do it right.

Luckily I have time to ask for multiple opinions and I appreciate all the responses.


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