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Old 05-04-2012, 08:36 AM   #31
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How to size steel cable for barn wall repair


I have a ton of pictures, but I can't get to most of them right now. I just uploaded a few here.

http://photobucket.com/toddsbarn

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Old 05-04-2012, 07:33 PM   #32
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How to size steel cable for barn wall repair


I've never worked on this problem with a barn, but I've done some garages.
Just looking at this and thinking about how I'd tackle it, I figure the ridge sagging is what's pushing the walls out. Therefore, you need to push up the ridge as you pull in the walls. If the ridge isn't moving, then something else is giving way instead. Also, the mortised part of the top plate is the weakest part of the assembly. I would use an exterior plate that would put pressure on the top plate and the post supporting it. Eventually, when the components are aligned in their original position, I'd use steel reinforcement plates on either side of the post and the beam, bolted together.
I also would use a cable at least on each beam to pull the walls together, and adjust each one as necessary until they come together.
Now as far as what size cable, I would imagine a 3/8" would hold a lot of weight but I don't know for sure. My concern is as much for the eye bolts and other components as the cable, but, since the structure slid out of alignment, then it should be able to slide back
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Old 05-04-2012, 07:41 PM   #33
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How to size steel cable for barn wall repair


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Originally Posted by Bondo View Post
Ayuh,... You'll need cabling that equals the strength of whatever yer doin' the pulling with...
A 2 ton come-a-long needs atleast 2 ton cabling...
By industry standards you need at a minimum of 5 to 1 safety factor.
Goggle "riggers card" and it should help you to determine what you need,a 3/8 straight out isn't going to give you much.
Forget the straps they are dangerous,I would use at a minimum of 5/8's" cabling.
And you can use angle iron with a piece of steel pipe cut length wise over the angle iron to help break the cable over your 90 degree pulls.
I'll tell you right now when you start doing this and have multiple cables under tension and you part one you're done,I don't think you realise how much weight you have

Last edited by Ravenworks; 05-04-2012 at 07:52 PM.
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Old 05-05-2012, 05:50 AM   #34
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How to size steel cable for barn wall repair


"straps are dangerous"

hmmm. Kind of a blanket statement, don't you think? What kind of straps did I point him to? Were they towing straps? Because that's an important detail to consider when giving this advice. The answer, btw, is NO. I certainly agree that safety is vital, but rigging needs on a moving truck with a load are not necessarily required for temporary home projects like this. Shifting loads puts an incredible load on a strap that simply doesn't happen when trying to pull a wall back by a few inches.

If you read up on the difference between pulling and lifting, you'll find that predicting required strength is quite a challenge, unlike lifting. Combined with the fact that the "weight" of a barn's structure is "unknown", as is the resistance to pulling, the planning process becomes quite complicated. You can't tell someone that a strap is less safe than a steel cable when you don't know the specifics of their pull. A 1 ton strap (example) being used to pull with a 200 LB force (example) is NOT UNSAFE!

Finally, if structural issues are causing the structure to shift, correcting those issues can significantly ease the pulling requirements.
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Old 05-05-2012, 07:09 AM   #35
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How to size steel cable for barn wall repair


one major thing to remember here is that for such a large structure there is actually little weight. no sheetrock, no subfloor no floor, and a 29 guage roof. and because its post and beam the roof is mostly point loaded down from a purlin to an uncompromised 30' long 11' x 14'. so unlike a stick frame structure the walls do not want to spread under the roofload.
making sure the core of each bent is tight and in tension, and throwing up multiple braces and cabling to keep the corners from opening once the barn is jacked to replace the sill is going to be sufficient. straps are fine but they do stretch.
there are many forces at work and thats the fun.i will check out riggers card. and i have slings for wrapping posts for pulling. im using 1/4 galv. aircraft cable because i got 500 ' for free, and thats that.
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Old 05-05-2012, 07:15 AM   #36
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How to size steel cable for barn wall repair


also, the structural issues occurred over time the same way most barns are destroyed: neglect. once the roof goes, the structure is exposed to a decade or more of constant moisture, freeze thaw, and...... with a new roof and some pressure treated sills and some steel to help some old joints its going to be happy.
im starting work tomorrow till wed. thanks for all the help and i'll post a shot or two.
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Old 05-05-2012, 07:53 AM   #37
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How to size steel cable for barn wall repair


Quote:
Originally Posted by tbeaulieu View Post
"straps are dangerous"
In your application they can be deadly,all it takes is a nick while under tension and she's ripping to shreds and yes wood will tear up your straps or slings.
You can not and should not ever try to break a strap over,that is where the advantage of using cable comes into play.
Straps and slings are safe if used properly and will not take the abuse that steel cabling will.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tbeaulieu View Post
If you read up on the difference between pulling and lifting, you
Let me clear this up for you,I have over 30 year experience in the "Heavy Lift industry" I am not trying to be a dick about this but what you did was complex and serious.
Here is a good source for you to read up about pulling and lifting http://www.mazzellalifting.com/
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbeaulieu View Post
How did I decide on the 4" straps?

I partly guessed. I read a lot and stumbled across the straps and thought they were a good price and strength. I talked with various people that are much smarter than I am and the concensus was that they would probably be fine. Remember, there's a big difference in required effort to lift an object, versus pulling it.
I am not trying to take away from the job you did because I know you put a lot of work into it and the end result was satisfying,but I will say this,the statements you make are dangerous and could get a person killed if they apply your knowledge to their application.

Last edited by Ravenworks; 05-05-2012 at 08:34 AM.
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Old 05-05-2012, 08:13 AM   #38
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How to size steel cable for barn wall repair


Sounds like this post may unwind faster than a nicked lifting strap.

I read this from front to back and sounds like a very interesting project and one worth posting. I am sure the dangers in doing this kind of work will not be overlooked, I am sure that is why this post was created to begin with.

Someone looking for advice, tbeaulieu, thanks for the post it is informative and what a project!, would you do it again? There are lots of barns out there that need some TLC.

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Old 05-05-2012, 10:55 PM   #39
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How to size steel cable for barn wall repair


Ok I surrender. You know nothing about how much tension was required to pull my walls in, yet you know I was wrong.

Maybe in 30 years I will be as wise. I'll hang my shingle, which will read:

"Wisdom for sale. Details not required."
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Old 08-07-2012, 01:48 PM   #40
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How to size steel cable for barn wall repair


It looks like you're doing a lot of good for that barn. Any recent updates? I'm actually going doing many of the same things to my barn just south of Boston. If you get a minute, shoot me an e-mail (joshuampaulin@gmail.com) I'd like to compare notes. Thanks

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