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Old 05-05-2010, 11:38 PM   #16
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How to replace posts before concrete is poured


Apparently there was some kind of problem before to cause the rot.

Maybe it is just old age, I don't know.

I would remove any old concrete that is there and make a proper new footing.

If you intend to use the same posts, surely it would be best to cut back to sound wood. Make the center part of the new footing up to that elevation.

I got the impression that these posts were still going to be surrounded by the new concrete pour. I don't think that's a good idea. That's all.

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Old 05-06-2010, 12:14 AM   #17
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How to replace posts before concrete is poured


yeah, i hate doing it this way (pouring concrete around rotten wood. i'll probably just get some 4'x4' and put up a temporary brace. maybe i can find some cheap steel posts around town.

wood has rotted in all concrete footings that i've seen. water soaks into the wood and settles to the bottom over time where it can't really escape. wet wood rots. Exposed wood here deteriorates quickly with the high winds and low humidity (desert almost).
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Old 05-06-2010, 08:31 AM   #18
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How to replace posts before concrete is poured


box out 12-16" around posts, do new pour, let concrete cure a few days, temp walls, pour boxed areas high strength, set new posts
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Old 05-06-2010, 09:49 AM   #19
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How to replace posts before concrete is poured


Quote:
Originally Posted by rosco View Post
yeah, i hate doing it this way (pouring concrete around rotten wood. i'll probably just get some 4'x4' and put up a temporary brace. maybe i can find some cheap steel posts around town.

wood has rotted in all concrete footings that i've seen. water soaks into the wood and settles to the bottom over time where it can't really escape. wet wood rots. Exposed wood here deteriorates quickly with the high winds and low humidity (desert almost).
There's absolutely no doubt you are right about that.

I wonder what sort of wood the posts are now. Do you know by chance?

Something like black locust would last a long time if it's available where you are, or alternatively, pressure treated wood. It all depends on what you can get I suppose.
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Old 05-06-2010, 01:38 PM   #20
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How to replace posts before concrete is poured


the posts are ~30+ years old. i've no idea if they are pressure treated.

i saw some guy with about 5 metal steel posts laying against his house down the street. ~5:30PM i'll swing by and see if he wants to sell them.
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Old 05-06-2010, 04:42 PM   #21
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How to replace posts before concrete is poured


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Originally Posted by jomama45 View Post
I would replace the posts first if it was my own. I would also wrap the bottoms (below top of concrete) with I&W sheild & wrap 1 layer of foam expansion joint around the post to allow the concrete to move independently w/o binding. For the 2 posts in the middle of the pour, I would run a control joint right to the center of them. The 2 outer posts should be fine with just the expansion around them.
see scanned image and my questions are there but you can't read them:
1) What should the diameter of the sonotube be (ID)?
2) Sonotube should be level with the Future Slab?
3) How far below the bottom of the "pit" (dug for the future concrete slab) should the "feet" be made?
4) Did Someone say rebar dowels should be put into the "feet" of the posts when laying the slab of concrete around these posts?
5) i'll have to do this one at a time. "she" might stop me after this post is put in. it would be much safer for me if i set these posts one by one. this means i'll pour the "feet" of these posts first. i'll wrap them in the expansion stuff before pouring. coool?
6) can i use two screws on each side to affix the Braces? i'll post photo in a sec.

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Old 05-06-2010, 04:53 PM   #22
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How to replace posts before concrete is poured


Question
7) is this brace going to work? i plan on putting a similar one where the cinder blocks are stacked.
8) how many pieces of rebar in one footing (if there is supposed to be rebar dowells in the [see ? 4) above]
(the pink 4'x4' is the brace)

[ATTACH]20218[/ATTACH
How to replace posts before concrete is poured-dscf2725.jpg
How to replace posts before concrete is poured-dscf2726.jpg
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Old 05-06-2010, 05:04 PM   #23
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How to replace posts before concrete is poured


You usually put the bracing out side of the area where you are pouring cement
Bracing it at an angle
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Old 05-06-2010, 05:05 PM   #24
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How to replace posts before concrete is poured


you're just holding up a roof? put some temp bracing to outside of pour, lose the post, thicken slab at new post position to 12" thick and be done with it
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Old 05-06-2010, 05:47 PM   #25
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How to replace posts before concrete is poured


Sonotube, get the post out of the ground. No more rot. Cardboard peels off.
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Old 05-06-2010, 05:55 PM   #26
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How to replace posts before concrete is poured


You confuse me when you say you know there is a concrete footing but you don't know how deep they are. Do you know the diameter of the footing? The Load on the posts?

Based on the load you can calc the needed footing size. If the current footings are adequate then you can prop up the structure above, cut off the posts above the rot, attach a bracket designed for concrete embedment and use a sonotube and rebar to pour a 12" concrete column on top of the footings up to the bracket.

If the footings are undersize, remove them and use appropriate bigfoot and sonotube to pour footing and column in one step.
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Old 05-06-2010, 05:59 PM   #27
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How to replace posts before concrete is poured


i guess a 12" thickened slab with brackets at post locations wont cut it? mymy
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Old 05-06-2010, 06:59 PM   #28
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How to replace posts before concrete is poured


Quote:
Originally Posted by kwikfishron View Post
Sonotube, get the post out of the ground. No more rot. Cardboard peels off.
so, should i bring sonotube all the way to the top, then bracket the post on? OR, should i put post down into to footing, inside the sonotube?
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Old 05-06-2010, 07:09 PM   #29
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How to replace posts before concrete is poured


Quote:
Originally Posted by jogr View Post
You confuse me when you say you know there is a concrete footing but you don't know how deep they are. Do you know the diameter of the footing? The Load on the posts?

Based on the load you can calc the needed footing size. If the current footings are adequate then you can prop up the structure above, cut off the posts above the rot, attach a bracket designed for concrete embedment and use a sonotube and rebar to pour a 12" concrete column on top of the footings up to the bracket.

If the footings are undersize, remove them and use appropriate bigfoot and sonotube to pour footing and column in one step.
I don't know the load, give a damn how it is calculated and the porch is very old and not built properly. the old post and footing will be removed.
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Old 05-06-2010, 11:27 PM   #30
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How to replace posts before concrete is poured


Quote:
Originally Posted by rosco View Post
see scanned image and my questions are there but you can't read them:
1) What should the diameter of the sonotube be (ID)?

How big is the current footing these posts are resting on? I think 12" dia. is more than enough.

2) Sonotube should be level with the Future Slab?

That's how I prefer to do it if the area is to be used for a patio.

3) How far below the bottom of the "pit" (dug for the future concrete slab) should the "feet" be made?

I'm not clear on what this means.

4) Did Someone say rebar dowels should be put into the "feet" of the posts when laying the slab of concrete around these posts?

No, you could drill a few small (like 3/8" dia. by 6-9" long) rebar dowels verticlaly into existing footer to tie additional footer concrete into.

5) i'll have to do this one at a time. "she" might stop me after this post is put in. it would be much safer for me if i set these posts one by one. this means i'll pour the "feet" of these posts first. i'll wrap them in the expansion stuff before pouring. coool?

Prop the whole thing at once, pour everything at once, set new, or shortened existing posts, on concrete after a day or two with a post anchor.
Tell the lady to do it herself if she thinks she knows better than you,
(then run like hell from her)

6) can i use two screws on each side to affix the Braces? i'll post photo in a sec.

Attachment 20215
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosco View Post
Question
7) is this brace going to work? i plan on putting a similar one where the cinder blocks are stacked.

Not for sure, as I can only see the underside. If there is a porch above this, I assume the stell roofing is meant to keep the patio dry if it rains?

8) how many pieces of rebar in one footing (if there is supposed to be rebar dowells in the [see ? 4) above]

3-4 IMO.
(the pink 4'x4' is the brace)

[ATTACH]20218[/ATTACH
Attachment 20216

Attachment 20217
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwikfishron View Post
Sonotube, get the post out of the ground. No more rot. Cardboard peels off.
A pic is worth a 1000 words! Do this right here, but IMO you don't need to keep the sono tube high, just flush. Make sure you use a post anchor/bracket that holds the post off the crete a little so water can weep out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rosco View Post
so, should i bring sonotube all the way to the top, then bracket the post on?

Yes, probably the best situation.

OR, should i put post down into to footing, inside the sonotube?
Only if you wrap the wood column with I&W shield, or something similar. BUT, we have no idea where you are and if you have to deal with an uplift scenario do to storms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rosco View Post
I don't know the load, give a damn how it is calculated and the porch is very old and not built properly. the old post and footing will be removed.


AWESOME POST!!! If the footing has indeed been in place successfully for 30+ years, there's no reason to replace it. I think this thread has been way too over-done, and understand why you're somewhat confused.

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