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-   -   How to replace posts before concrete is poured (http://www.diychatroom.com/f19/how-replace-posts-before-concrete-poured-70601/)

rosco 05-05-2010 03:42 PM

How to replace posts before concrete is poured
 
1 Attachment(s)
the picture should explain everything. the four posts are holding up a porch.

when i pour the concrete it will crack out from the four corners of the rotting posts. so replacing the posts before the concrete is poured will still result in cracks from the new inlaid posts.
Attachment 20188

HOW DO I SUPPORT THE PORCH, GET RID OF THE ROTTEN POSTS AND LAY CONCRETE?

i have a manual post hole digger and don't want to spend lots of money on round steel posts.

rosco 05-05-2010 04:05 PM

another pic
 
1 Attachment(s)
here is picture from a different view:
Attachment 20189

kwikfishron 05-05-2010 04:52 PM

A picture of what the post are holding up would help but basically you need to temp. up the porch to the outside of your pour.

jomama45 05-05-2010 05:19 PM

I would replace the posts first if it was my own. I would also wrap the bottoms (below top of concrete) with I&W sheild & wrap 1 layer of foam expansion joint around the post to allow the concrete to move independently w/o binding. For the 2 posts in the middle of the pour, I would run a control joint right to the center of them. The 2 outer posts should be fine with just the expansion around them.

kwikfishron 05-05-2010 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jomama45 (Post 437990)
I would replace the posts first if it was my own. I would also wrap the bottoms (below top of concrete) with I&W sheild & wrap 1 layer of foam expansion joint around the post to allow the concrete to move independently w/o binding. For the 2 posts in the middle of the pour, I would run a control joint right to the center of them. The 2 outer posts should be fine with just the expansion around them.

Why not post brackets?

jomama45 05-05-2010 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwikfishron (Post 437999)
Why not post brackets?


Mostly because there is no mention to where in the world this may be. :whistling2:

If the patio were ever to heave, it would take the deck with it.

Post brackets would work IMO, but here's how I would do it then:

Extend the existing sonotubes to or above the top of the new patio elevation with tubes. Dowel a few small rebar chunks into existing sonos.

Wrap teh new tubes with the same expansion material. Fill inside of tube the same time as pouring patio. Set post anchors after concrete is hard.

kwikfishron 05-05-2010 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jomama45 (Post 438003)
Mostly because there is no mention to where in the world this may be. :whistling2:

If the patio were ever to heave, it would take the deck with it.

Post brackets would work IMO, but here's how I would do it then:

Extend the existing sonotubes to or above the top of the new patio elevation with tubes. Dowel a few small rebar chunks into existing sonos.

Wrap teh new tubes with the same expansion material. Fill inside of tube the same time as pouring patio. Set post anchors after concrete is hard.

:whistling2:
I totally agree. If heave is a issue then dig, Anything than
entombing the post in mud.

tpolk 05-05-2010 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jomama45 (Post 437990)
I would replace the posts first if it was my own. I would also wrap the bottoms (below top of concrete) with I&W sheild & wrap 1 layer of foam expansion joint around the post to allow the concrete to move independently w/o binding. For the 2 posts in the middle of the pour, I would run a control joint right to the center of them. The 2 outer posts should be fine with just the expansion around them.

i agree with all of this with the one question of whats under those posts now. footing?

kwikfishron 05-05-2010 08:10 PM

I'll bet a 100 on nothing.

tpolk 05-05-2010 08:16 PM

looks like concrete in the one pic unless its old slab

rosco 05-05-2010 09:19 PM

hmmm
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jomama45 (Post 438003)
...

If the patio were ever to heave, it would take the deck with it.

...

Extend the existing sonotubes to or above the top of the new patio elevation with tubes. ...

Wr....erial. Fill inside of tube the same time as pouring patio. Set post anchors after concrete is hard.

if the patio heaves it will take the porch with it? there is slight movement in the soil or settling, but no earthquakes.

i'm curious if i could wrap this tape around the existing 4x4' and pour the concrete mix. once poured, i'd bracket in the old 4x4's. it seems unlikely that i could prop this porch up. it is a "home job" from about 30 years ago. and we have little interest in putting $ into it.

rosco 05-05-2010 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tpolk (Post 438056)
i agree with all of this with the one question of whats under those posts now. footing?

contrete footing at bottom of posts. these posts were in dirt before i dug them out and broke off top three inches to lay cconrete (someone told me that was a good idea.

i've no idea how much is below it but i'll bet about 6" from just the way one of the post's foot was broken. it wiggled like a broken tooth.

is there a way i could treat or fill in the rotten portion so it doesn't rot more? and then a way to wrap expansion tape around it to prevent thin cracks to from going out from the posts as the concrete slab is poured?

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwikfishron (Post 438060)
I'll bet a 100 on nothing.

who did you bet? i'll take the payout on that bet to fund this project! :laughing:

jomama45 05-05-2010 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tpolk (Post 438065)
looks like concrete in the one pic unless its old slab

Somehow, I caught that little part in the pic as well. I usually don't look at these pics long enough to catch these kind of things, but it looks like some kind of sonotube ot me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rosco (Post 438094)
if the patio heaves it will take the porch with it? there is slight movement in the soil or settling, but no earthquakes.

i'm curious if i could wrap this tape around the existing 4x4' and pour the cement. once poured, i'd bracket in the old 4x4's. it seems unlikely that i could prop this porch up. it is a "home job" from about 30 years ago. and we have little interest in putting $ into it.

No big suprise! :laughing:

Yes, the patio could heave IF you are in a cold climate, but I guess no one here will ever know if that's the case. :whistling2:

You can wrap the existing posts, but if they touch any earth or concrete, they will continue to wick moisture into themselves & rot out. Now would be a good oppurtunity to rectify that situation.

cocobolo 05-05-2010 11:52 PM

We are lacking some information here. It might be very handy to know what these posts are holding up, and what the weight may be.

In any event, I think you might be barking up the wrong tree here. Don't entomb your posts in your new pour.

Take the weight off the posts, one at a time if necessary, dig a hole and construct a proper footing under the location of the posts. If you could make the top of your footing slightly above the finished concrete floor - about 3 or 4 inches, that would be good. You could set your saddle in the correct place and the problem of future rotting wood is solved.

If there is some old concrete under there, I would get it out.

rosco 05-06-2010 12:26 AM

What are you talking about? read two or three replies above the last jomama45 reply and you'll see i wrote the posts have concrete feet. i don't know how deep they are. i'll guess 6".

"barking up the wrong tree"? do you mean that i have the wrong approach or that i'm asking the wrong people?

jomama45 - the owner of the house, not me, is wanting to save money and knows these posts are rotting. she can see them. if i could wrap it in expansion tape there wouldn't be cracks shooting off around the posts. the posts would be bracketed to the concrete so when they do rot, she should be able to see more of it before the porch collapses. are you kinda following me? it is likely i won't be here to catch blame for not putting in steel poles and replacing much of the rotting wood above in the actual porch. someone else will get to deal with that.


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