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Old 07-30-2010, 01:04 AM   #1
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How to maximize shed/workshop interior space in 10x10x8 space


The local codes only allows an "accessory building" of 100sqft foot print and 8ft high (ground to highest peak). I would've liked to have at least a 7ft ceiling, but that doesn't leave much for floor joist & roof.

For the roof, I was thinking doing a flatroof.

For foundation, although a slab foundation will reduce height, it is outside my skill level, and outside the cost I want to spend on this project. So I was thinking posts supporting joists as low to the ground as possible, and I think I can get away with 2x6 joists at 12"OC, but I would feel better using 2x8 joists. How low to the ground can I be without having to use pressure treated joists?

Another option is concrete pier blocks with joists sitting on it, but the blocks would be floating (i prefer anchored) and also the blocks would add extra height.

Any thoughts?


Side note: Since it is going to double as workshop, I wanted to insulate it. Walls & ceiling, no problem. For the floor, it will be joists, 1/2" plywood, 1" rigid foam, another 1/2" plywood, and walls on top of that. Is that a good plan?


Last edited by acerunner; 07-30-2010 at 07:12 AM.
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Old 07-30-2010, 08:35 AM   #2
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How to maximize shed/workshop interior space in 10x10x8 space


I am not familiar with seismic codes, nor the species of framing lumber typically available and/or used in CA, so am going to leave further comment to others, but a couple of thoughts...

You will need to use treated material for the floor joists, and regardless, that type of configuration is going to dig into your valuable head space. Also, I hate flat roofs; in my opinion, they are typically money pits in regard to maintenance.

So, how about a pole type building, with a single slope roof; 8' high on the side that you walk into, dropping to say 5-1/2 to 6' on the back side. It sounds like you will likely have a work bench in there, so if you place it along the back wall, and allow enough head room at the front of the bench, you should be fine. Again, not knowing the species available, you'll have to wait for someone to confirm, but probably 2x8 rafters would work with no snow load. As for the floor, pavers? Minimal experience required, and quite often you can find "odd lots", around here anyway, at reduced prices.

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Old 07-30-2010, 04:36 PM   #3
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How to maximize shed/workshop interior space in 10x10x8 space


hmm, i didn't even think about seismic issues. There definitely is no minimum code for it. The building department basically said if it's within those sizes, then they don't care how you build it.

About flat roofs, I've heard that they can last just as long as sloped roof if build correctly and with good materials. Maybe I can do a very short gable roof instead?

With pavers, can I still insulate the floor? Are walls anchored the same way as slabs? What kind of flooring can you put over it?
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Old 07-30-2010, 05:08 PM   #4
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How to maximize shed/workshop interior space in 10x10x8 space


What I was referring to in regard to pavers would be to construct a pole builing, which would not require an actual footing, other than perhaps a rat wall, to keep varmits from burrowing under it, depending on your local code, then inside of the walls of the shed, excavate the existing soil to a prescribed depth, back fill with sand, and place pavers, something with a minimal edge radius, at the exact minimal elevation that is needed. A bit different approach, but something that came to mind as an alternative to a poured slab, which you seemed to indicate that you would prefer not to do, and still maintain a reasonable amount of head room. Insulating the pavers might pose a problem, but how necessary is insulation in the floor in SF, keeping in mind the fact that it sounds like you have a budget that you are trying to stay within. I am not certain of the year-round climate of SF, but it seems that you might be better served to focus on insulation in the walls and ceiling. Just some thoughts.
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Old 07-30-2010, 05:19 PM   #5
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How to maximize shed/workshop interior space in 10x10x8 space


If drainage is not a problem maybe you could dig down 6-12" & step down into the shed
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Old 07-30-2010, 10:17 PM   #6
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How to maximize shed/workshop interior space in 10x10x8 space


dexter, you're right, San Francisco weather is never too extreme, absolute peaks are probably from 40s to 80s. The reason I wanted to insulate the floors is because my current work area is in the garage on slab foundation, and it's always cold and damp there.

dave, I'm not sure about drainage problems. But it does rain hard here sometimes, and I don't want to run into problems later. Is it enough to slope the soil away from the shed?
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Old 07-30-2010, 10:46 PM   #7
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How to maximize shed/workshop interior space in 10x10x8 space


Ideally you would have a drain pipe buried around the perimeter
Then it would drain to a lower area of the yard
My greenhouse is buried over a foot deep, a friends is over 2' in the ground
But....less concern if a greenhouse gets wet
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Old 07-31-2010, 11:54 AM   #8
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How to maximize shed/workshop interior space in 10x10x8 space


for the roof; if you use plywood sheeting on the inside and outside, that should ad a good deal of strength by effectively turning your rafters into I beams

if you do a traditional roof with a low pitch, you could reinforce the center beam (maybe even a steel I-beam) and have your rafters only running 4' 6" span either way. I bet you could get by with pretty small lumber for rafters. I am picturing a pair of 2x8s angle cut at the top to follow the roof angle with a 2x6 or 2x8 glued and screwed to the bottom. Plywwod resting on the flange created by the horizontal board, the rafters, (either 2x6s or 2x4s going even with the top of the cut down middle board, then more sheeting on top, then your roofing. if you have every thing boxed and secured together the pannels become more structural and you have less need for dedicated structural beams. kind of like a unibody car vs. and old body on frame auto.

remember also, you do not need a super rigid structure with "absolutely no bowing what-so-ever" its a shed. you won't be walking upt there, and you don't need it to suport feet of snowfall. maybe even buy bowed lumber and put the bows up. I've seen sheds around here with 2x6 rafter spaced 24" OC do fine with comperable spans to what you are talking about. and we have a 45lb per sq ft ground snow load to deal with.

for the floor, I'd do pressure treated 2x4s sitting right on the ground, with the topsoil dug out and a gravel bed in its place. Maybe burry a concrete block or paver every so often near the walkways or other high load areas to act as a pier. you might also consider rubber matts or outdoor carpeting if you want more insulation. at least do some sand imbedded paint to traction. I'd also put in a "rat wall" if there is any chance that animals might become a problem. put the rat-wall block going up to ground height, gravel on the inside and topsoil on the outside, then put the 2x4s right on top of the rat-wall blocks to act as the foundation. I'd also use PT 4x4s at the corners and maybe under the ridge.

if you really want it close to ground level. pour a pad, then set some 1x2 PT spacers, then do you wood/foam/wood floor. but all you gain with that vs. the 2x4s is 3" is it worth it to you?

There isn't any way to get a new Lexus on a second hand Hyundia budget. you are going to have to spend a few bucks here and there, or you will regret it down the road.
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Old 07-31-2010, 01:19 PM   #9
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How to maximize shed/workshop interior space in 10x10x8 space


Forresth has some good ideas on the roof and floor. Look into how SIPs are constructed, ply/osb both side with rigid foam board inside, all glued together with a camber on the roof ones. I've built 12' long by 24" wide planks for handtrucking lumber up the 2' high exterior wall onto a deck. 2x2's soaked in water to bend, add ply both side- glued and screwed---- very strong with minimal deflection. Use treated p.t. ply (waterproofed) for the floor panels.

Workshop 12" in the ground with no concrete, hmmm...... "Is it enough to slope the soil away from the shed?" ---- definetly slope and raise the siding 8" above the ground outside. You may be laying 4" block or concrete afterall.....

Be safe, Gary
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Old 08-02-2010, 01:06 AM   #10
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How to maximize shed/workshop interior space in 10x10x8 space


Quote:
Originally Posted by forresth View Post
if you do a traditional roof with a low pitch, you could reinforce the center beam (maybe even a steel I-beam) and have your rafters only running 4' 6" span either way. I bet you could get by with pretty small lumber for rafters. I am picturing a pair of 2x8s angle cut at the top to follow the roof angle with a 2x6 or 2x8 glued and screwed to the bottom. Plywwod resting on the flange created by the horizontal board, the rafters, (either 2x6s or 2x4s going even with the top of the cut down middle board, then more sheeting on top, then your roofing. if you have every thing boxed and secured together the pannels become more structural and you have less need for dedicated structural beams. kind of like a unibody car vs. and old body on frame auto.
Not quite sure I follow. Do u have a picture?

How deep does a rat wall need to be? And what kind of material?

Gary, I did a search on SIPs. Yeah, that's basically what i wanna do with the floor but not a wall thickness of foam.


Some additional info. I dug up the weeds and small tree in the backyard the prepare for the shed. A couple of issues.
The ground is all dry sand, no real soil. How well will that work for shed foundation? It's like the type of sand u see at the dryer parts of the beach. Very loose and doesn't hold it's shape.
Also, the roots of the small tree go pretty deep and wide. Is it necessary to pull all of it out? Will it be able to regrow and ruin my shed?

Thanks

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