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Old 09-16-2009, 07:54 AM   #1
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How to fix this


I have an ICF frost wall under my garage, and basically the contractor did a really poor job on the front frost wall where the garage doors are. The trusses had already been delivered, and the framer set the the sill plate on the frost wall, built the wall and we didn't notice this until now that we are clearing the dirt out and getting ready to do the garage slab and parking area. This is what we ended up with. The rest of the garage is fine, but on the south corner the wall is basically resting on 1" of concrete since the foam on the ICF is 2.5", and gets better until it reaches the north corner where is resting on about 3" of concrete.

Is there a way to fix this without having to build a second wall complete with headers right next to the exterior wall? Wouldn't that change the bearing points on the trusses?

Thanks.
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Old 09-16-2009, 08:07 AM   #2
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How to fix this


Add a steel ledger plate 2 1/2" X 5" to support the wall. Anchor the steel to the foundation wall.
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Old 09-16-2009, 08:15 AM   #3
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Bob,

Is this what you mean by a 2.5"x5" steel ledger? Or are they something different?
How exactly would you attach this to the concrete? The concrete in the icf is 6" thick.
Do I need to worry about cracking the concrete trying to drill?
I would basically need a 4ft piece and a 3 ft piece ledger to do the south part of the wall and the small wall between the two garage openings.
Wouldn't that be quite a chunk of change for a piece of steel that big?
Any special grade of steel? Where do I get a piece of steel like that?

Thanks for the help.
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Last edited by Boontucky; 09-16-2009 at 08:21 AM.
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Old 09-16-2009, 08:24 AM   #4
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How to fix this


Pardon my ignorance. I did a google on steel ledgers and what I could see pictures of they look like really thick L or C shaped pieces of steel. Is that right?

If so, do they come in standard thicknesses or do I need to get a minimum gague of steel to do the job? Again, how does this get attached to the concrete? Epoxied threaded rebar with bolts? Big tapcons?
Anchoring schedule?

Thanks.
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Old 09-16-2009, 08:51 AM   #5
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How to fix this


use 3/8" or larger anchor bolts into the concrete. If block use epoxy also. Have the yard burn holes in the steel for you for this purpose. These are standard sizes you will find at any mason supply store. We use them for ledgers if adding stone to the foundation when the correct shelf is not available on the foundation wall and for headers over doors and windows when siding in stone or brick. Your picture shows the correct installation. Using a hammer-drill on the combination setting will not crack or break the wall at all.
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Old 09-16-2009, 02:48 PM   #6
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How to fix this


That may be interesting when the Inspector wants engineering and documentation for the fix. Another way could be to have the Truss Company write a paper and field install bearing wedge blocks at that side's trusses. You will have a bottom chord cantilever of soffit on that side that could cover with flat 1x3 cedar. Or-- just split the difference with the trusses on both sides, add flat 1x2 on each, no paperwork, wedges or discussion.
Be safe, Gary
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Old 09-16-2009, 03:36 PM   #7
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How to fix this


Gary,

In the Boondocks where I am there is no inspection. But I still want to do something that will be safe and structurally sound.

Forgive my slowness, but I don't quite follow what you are proposing.
Are you saying to move the wall in and reinforce the trusses to accommodate for the change in bearing point (with the wedges)?
The wall is already built, sided, soffits installed, etc, so I am not looking to tear it out and redo it.
I had thought that one way to do it would be to build a second wall. The problem is that only about 1.5" of the concrete is exposed on the top, and I wasn't sure on how to attach the additional bottom plate to that. I also thought that I would have to "sister" each stud with some wood to the new wall studs to make sure the new stud wall was sharing and transferring the load to the concrete. Then I thought I'd probably should jack that old wall up just a bit, build the new wall and then when the jack came down I'd be sure that the new wall was taking the load.
Of course that would involve the truss mfg. giving me permission to actually do that and what to do to reinforce those trusses since it is a hip roof.
I wanted to ask for different options which might be easier, yet achieve the same purpose.

So your opinion is that the steel ledger would not be enough to transfer the load from the trusses back to the concrete wall?

Thanks.
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Old 09-16-2009, 05:09 PM   #8
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How to fix this


To me your contractor built this wrong & should rebuild it
What is in your contract
Why one Earth would someone build a wall without support?
Is the wall wrong, or the entire concrete foundation poured wrong?

My concrete foundation is 10+" wide, hard to miss
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Old 09-16-2009, 05:28 PM   #9
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How to fix this


In that case, feel free to do what Bob said. He could give you more direction on that particular fix than I.
Be safe, Gary
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Old 09-17-2009, 08:45 AM   #10
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It's only this wall that is messed up. The rest of the garage and house are good.

We don't have a general contractor building for us. We hired a basement contractor to pour our basement, and we hired a framer to frame our house. The contracts basically say things are built according to the blue prints. The framer built the house exactly to the blueprint. The basement guy didn't. At this point I'm not sure that it would be feasible to get that frost wall redone and corrected, with everything else already built and finished on top.
Our concrete foundation is 6" wide core in ICF, with #5 grade 60 rebar 18" o.c. And ICF is so new in my area, that the framer had never seen one before. So he put a 2x8 sill plate on this wall, and perhaps he thought that would be good enough to get the load back to the concrete? So far things have not moved, that 2x8 seems to be doing all right. But I know there is no way that will remain that way.

After talking to a civil engineer friend, he started talking about loads, and shear and bending moments, and adequate transfer of the shear loads back into the concrete, and what lateral and uplift forces wind would impose on that wall. He said the angle iron would support the gravity forces with no problem. It's the lateral shear and other loads that he would be concerned about. But he's not a structural engineer, so he couldn't really crunch some numbers for me.

Another friend suggested I buy an LVL beam and some jacks and place that just inside the garage wall, and add extra to the sill plate, another 2x4 next to the bottom plate of the original wall and set the jacks on that so that I'm bearing directly over the concrete. This seems like a spendy option, and then again, gravity forces would be taken care of, but this wouldn't be really anchored to the foundation since the j-bolts would s till be attached to the original sill plate and wall. And of course, we'd have to get the trusses braced up for the change in point of bearing.
But then, only the sill plate is attached to the foundation and the original wall is attached to the sill place with nails. So would that really be any different?

I could take the nuts off the j-bolts, and put a small piece of steel on it that attaches to the extra sill plate. Would that work? Though I think it would be cheaper to just build a second wall, rather than go with the LVL and jacks option.

I'm just rambling and exploring options. I do appreciate all of your opinions and advice. Thanks.
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