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Old 06-10-2010, 04:15 PM   #1
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How to attach ledger with no rim joist


I'm replacing my front porch. The floor joists (perpendicular to foundation wall) extend all the way out to the edge of the stone foundation with no rim joist. Some of the joist cavities are filled with stone/mortar, others with wood (yes I have bug, mice, bat and squirrel problems). The old porch was attached to a ledger that was just nailed to the ends of the joists. The old ledger was partially rotten, so I removed it. How do I attach a new ledger? Can I lag bolt it to the joist ends and the sill plate? I know this isn't a good idea, but what other options do I have?

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Old 06-10-2010, 05:20 PM   #2
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How to attach ledger with no rim joist


You don’t want to lag into the ends of the joist.

Can you post some pictures?

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Old 06-10-2010, 05:52 PM   #3
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How to attach ledger with no rim joist


Some pics.
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How to attach ledger with no rim joist-0610001648.jpg   How to attach ledger with no rim joist-0610001648a.jpg  
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Old 06-10-2010, 06:05 PM   #4
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How to attach ledger with no rim joist


Doesn’t that look just lovely.

It looks like to me the only purpose of the rock between the joist is to plug the hole.

I’d get rid of enough of the rock so you can block in between the joist, then continue the sheathing down to the bottom of the plate. Then you can lag a ledger to go through the sheathing into the blocks.

Be sure to get some tar paper or ice and water shield over the sheathing before you install the ledger.
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Old 06-10-2010, 06:09 PM   #5
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How to attach ledger with no rim joist


Thanks. Lovely, I know. How should I attach the blocking so that it is strong enough to lag to? Also, do I really need to sheath it too?
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Old 06-10-2010, 06:14 PM   #6
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How to attach ledger with no rim joist


Yes, your set up perfectly to sheet over all of it. The sheathing is what will hold it all together and give it strength.

What is the decking going to be?
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Old 06-10-2010, 06:20 PM   #7
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How to attach ledger with no rim joist


4 inch PT T&G. I've thought about Fir or So. Yellow Pine, but I thought PT might hold up better. How should I attach the blocking?
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Old 06-10-2010, 06:33 PM   #8
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How to attach ledger with no rim joist


Id use galvanized or deck screws. It would be easier than trying to hand nail the blocks.

Id also use 1 - 1 ” screws on the sheathing unless you have nail guns.

If your using T&G for the top be sure to install flashing that goes up behind the siding and over the decking to keep the water away from the ledger so your not repeating this in a couple years.
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Old 06-10-2010, 06:39 PM   #9
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How to attach ledger with no rim joist


Thanks! Does the flashing necessarily have to go over the flooring? Could a Z shaped flashing be used... under the siding but over the ledger?
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Old 06-10-2010, 06:51 PM   #10
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How to attach ledger with no rim joist


Z over the ledger is what you would typically do but when you said a T&G decking on the porch, I just didn’t want to see water collecting and standing in that corner.

Doing both would be better yet, as long as the wall side of the flashings go up behind the siding.
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Old 06-11-2010, 12:55 PM   #11
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How to attach ledger with no rim joist


The plan...
Remove the stone and mortar from the joist bays.
Screw (or nail?) in blocking.
Replace the bottom course of sheathing.
Apply Ice and Water shield.
Lag a 2x8 ledger to the sheathing and blocking.
Z-Flash behind siding and over ledger.
Hang porch joists from there.

After more thought... I'm starting to wonder if this process will provide a strong enough base to lag to. Can someone reassure me?
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Old 06-11-2010, 01:10 PM   #12
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How to attach ledger with no rim joist


Quote:
Originally Posted by degnem View Post
The plan...
Remove the stone and mortar from the joist bays.
Screw (or nail?) in blocking.
Replace the bottom course of sheathing.
Apply Ice and Water shield.
Lag a 2x8 ledger to the sheathing and blocking.
Z-Flash behind siding and over ledger.
Hang porch joists from there.

After more thought... I'm starting to wonder if this process will provide a strong enough base to lag to. Can someone reassure me?
Sounds like a good plan to me.

Try to get the flashing behind the building paper of the siding.
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Old 06-11-2010, 01:18 PM   #13
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How to attach ledger with no rim joist


You can always block with 4x.

The point of the blocking in your case is so the load of the lags transfers to the blocks and down the plate and that wonderful foundation of yours.
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Old 06-11-2010, 02:11 PM   #14
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How to attach ledger with no rim joist


4x8s? Yikes! That could get costly and be no fun to cut. I'll stick with 2x.
Call me stupid... but how should I attach the blocking? Toe nail to joists? To Sill Plate? Both? And would you still suggest screws if I have a framing nailer?
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Old 06-11-2010, 02:44 PM   #15
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How to attach ledger with no rim joist


You can nail them, the only reason I suggested screws is because its sometimes easier to do your precision toe nailing/screwing done without knocking the blocks in to far or splitting them out.

I wouldn’t build a house with screws but sometimes on little stuff like your doing, it’s just cleaner.

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