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Old 04-26-2011, 09:27 AM   #16
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Historic District Renovation Help!


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Originally Posted by MLMIB View Post

So if you came here to bash historic
Districts I hope you don't expect any sympathy from me.
I don't think anybody is looking for sympathy.

What is ironic, is these folks use and abuse their "power" to control land owners, and are forgetting our own history in the process. I have no sympathy for tyrants, elected or appointed.

-- Joe

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Old 04-26-2011, 09:53 AM   #17
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I don't think anybody is looking for sympathy.

What is ironic, is these folks use and abuse their "power" to control land owners, and are forgetting our own history in the process. I have no sympathy for tyrants, elected or appointed.

-- Joe
agreed, there is and always will be room for abuse, but I wouldn't write off and throw the entire historic preservation process into that bin.

I know of an instance where it did go wrong, a local board made a decision not to grant approval because the proposal was not to their liking. The couple had followed the rules to the T but the board still disapproved. The couple ended up winning and getting what they wanted but it took a lawsuit to do it. The worlds not perfect, nor are these commissions, but asking and involving them in the process usually goes a long long way.

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Old 04-26-2011, 11:12 AM   #18
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I worked in a historic district for a good number of years, one thing I learned about the board was they didn't have the funds to fight in court so when we had a problem we just went to the meetings with a lawyer and it worked every time.
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Old 04-26-2011, 12:14 PM   #19
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I worked in a historic district for a good number of years, one thing I learned about the board was they didn't have the funds to fight in court so when we had a problem we just went to the meetings with a lawyer and it worked every time.
A home owner shouldn't have to hire a lawyer if he wants to change his windows or the color of his home. It's just absurd.


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Old 04-26-2011, 12:45 PM   #20
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MLMIB,

I grew up smack dab in the middle of one of the largest Historical Districts in St. Petersburg. I haven't lived there since I left for the Army almost 50 years ago. It was just a neighborhood then. Like any other. People fixed up their homes and changed the appearance as they saw fit. These same homes that, for the most part, are now controlled by people who never even saw the houses till ten or fifteen years ago.

I make some good money on occassion in that area, but I wouldn't move back there for the world now. Nor would I advise anyone I care about to buy there.
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Old 04-26-2011, 01:15 PM   #21
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I worked on antique homes (18th, 19th and early 20th Century) almost exclusively until forced into more or less retired status. Historical Preservation people can be trying and their battles with building departments legendary (and near impossible if you find yourself caught in the middle of one) but they intend no harm and certainly do not mean to make your life miserable.

That said, and as others have mentioned, their role is to preserve the character of old homes, buildings and neighborhoods. Without them people would get away with the cheapest siding and crappiest windows, weirdest paint schemes and everybody would lose.

Now most will do their best to work with you and as mentioned some even have funds to offset the additional costs of building materials. If you get on their bad sad and think you are somehow going to win a fight, especially if your home or neighborhood is landmarked, you will not win.

I've not found one yet that expects you to rebuild old, broken windows. None I have worked with will put up with vinyl box store replacements either. Same with siding. Many will allow modern building materials with the same look and feel as what is on the house.

As for wood siding and it needing painting every year? The last really large home I restored was covered with cypress and cedar that had been on it for over one hundred years. It needed minor repairs in some places. Once layers of paint were power shaved, power scraped, and sanded? It was primed with top of the line alkyd primer and two coats of top line exterior paint. It will not need to be touched in 10-15 years at the earliest.

I do know how you feel to a point though. I walked away from a dream home for myself in Olde City, Philadelphia even though the historical folk approved all my drawings. The City was going to hold me to the guidelines the historical folks fought to get even though they were waivering them. All walls had to be x feet from the property line including ones for an atrium floor I wanted to add to the roof. I would not be allowed to use the bearing walls. Bribes might have worked but I was not that married to the project.

You have to learn to play by the rules and you could be asked to undo anything you do that is not in compliance or that you did not get approved ahead of time. You will also save yourself a lot of anguish working with contractors that are familiar with and accustomed to working in historic situations.

People suggesting you should never buy an historic home or live in an historic neighborhood are poorly informed too. The reasons homes and properties in them hold or increase their values, even in tough times like these, is because they are watched over. I would not live anywhere else.

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Old 04-26-2011, 01:20 PM   #22
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Excellent post.

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Old 04-26-2011, 01:39 PM   #23
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. Without them people would get away with the cheapest siding and crappiest windows, weirdest paint schemes and everybody would lose.

I've not found one yet that expects you to rebuild old, broken windows. None I have worked with will put up with vinyl box store replacements either. Same with siding. Many will allow modern building materials with the same look and feel as what is on the house.
You see, that is where you and I are going to differ. No tyrant should be able to keep a landowner, homeowner from choosing a window or siding, a color, or whatever. I feel very strongly about this - I seriously feel that such oppression is what justifies revolutions. And like you folks have no sympathy for a homeowner complaining about this injustice, I would have no sympathy if a homeowner shoots and kills one of these tyrants. I feel that would be justified.

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Old 04-26-2011, 01:43 PM   #24
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Nobody forced the homeowner to buy an historic home or into an historic neighborhood did they? The rules are not new.

I remember once doing community relations for people who knowingly built homes under the take off path a major Chicago airport and than tried to suit because of the aircraft noise. I had no sympathy for them either. Following your logic, they should just have shot the aircraft down?

You join a baseball league. Once in you decide you don't like the rules so you beat everybody up with the bat?

Come on.

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Old 04-26-2011, 01:43 PM   #25
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Quote:
You see, that is where you and I are going to differ. No tyrant should be able to keep a landowner, homeowner from choosing a window or siding, a color, or whatever. I feel very strongly about this - I seriously feel that such oppression is what justifies revolutions. And like you folks have no sympathy for a homeowner complaining about this injustice, I would have no sympathy if a homeowner shoots and kills one of these tyrants. I feel that would be justified.

-- Joe


Oh please, how tyrannical is it to shoot and kill someone?

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Old 04-26-2011, 01:46 PM   #26
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Oh please, how tyrannical is it to shoot and kill someone?

Andy.
It's not. If someone tries to force you to do something, you have the right to force back.

Too many people have settled on the nanny mentality of letting others make decisions for them.

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Old 04-26-2011, 01:49 PM   #27
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I hardly think it is a "nanny mentality" to work within the limits of the law, unless the law allows you to shoot and kill someone for some perceived yet lawful inconvenience.



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Old 04-26-2011, 01:49 PM   #28
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Nobody forced the homeowner to buy an historic home or into an historic neighborhood did they? The rules are not new.

I remember once doing community relations for people who knowingly built homes under the take off path a major Chicago airport and than tried to suit because of the aircraft noise. I had no sympathy for them either. Following your logic, they should just have shot the aircraft down?

Come on.
If you somehow came to a logical conclusion that the air planes were forcing a homeowner to choose one type of window or another, there is absolutely nothing I can do to help you understand. Chicago you say? Ahh, these happen to be the same folks responsible for putting bam bam in the white house.

A homeowner should have the choice if they own the home to do as they please with it. Historical or not. If YOU don't like it, buy all the homes and do what YOU would like with them.

-- Joe
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Old 04-26-2011, 01:53 PM   #29
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I hardly think it is a "nanny mentality" to work within the limits of the law, unless the law allows you to shoot and kill someone for some perceived yet lawful inconvenience.

Andy.
It's not an inconvenience it's a unlawful oppression of people by a majority of thugs. Same types of people that would try to ban guns in their city. Duh - they don't want the people to rise up against the tyrants.

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Old 04-27-2011, 08:57 AM   #30
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anesthes, gotta say I think you are out of your mind, but the bottom line is someone joined the historical district game voluntarily. Wether they were aware of the rules or not at that time is not at issue, as now they have to play by them.

It's clear that your main obstacle in overcoming your problems is undoubtedly your own self serving attitude. You want bees? Try honey, not vinegar.


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