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Old 02-17-2013, 02:09 PM   #1
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Hiring unlicensed uninsured subcontractors for commercial remodel


Hi All!
I am new to the site and have been reading the great wealth of information that is being offered.

I am the project manager on a building my family purchased. We are converting a Steak and Shake restaurant into a medical clinic. Since I am in Texas, a General Contractors License is not required. I have interviewed different subcontractors to give me bids and most are uninsured and unlicensed. I have already listed myself as the GC in the city and have the demolition permit. I am at a standstill at this moment waiting for the plumbing and electrical bids to come in. The framing sub contractor has his crew and has many years of experience. I have checked his references and he has done big jobs on both residential and commercial. What has me worried is the liability incase anyone gets hurt. He has assured me that no one will get hurt but I can't take any risks. I have tried to contact insurance companies about getting a workers comp policy and they will get back with me.
Is there a way to hire uninsured subs and have them sign some sort of liablity waiver and lien waivers? Thank you very much for any advice!

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Old 02-17-2013, 02:17 PM   #2
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Hiring unlicensed uninsured subcontractors for commercial remodel


State of Texas will have the answers you need- or your attorney
Liens are part of doing business as is insurance, bonds, etc.

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Old 02-17-2013, 02:17 PM   #3
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Hiring unlicensed uninsured subcontractors for commercial remodel


Don' do it! There are plenty of licensed and insured people out there. Contact the local union offices for a list of qualified trades. If you're going to be in business, networking with top notch proffesionals is the only way to go.
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Old 02-17-2013, 04:23 PM   #4
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Hiring unlicensed uninsured subcontractors for commercial remodel


I too would be extremely concerned about injuries on the job. If your sub lacks proper insurance, licensing etc., you could be in a world of trouble if there is an accident on your property. Best to check with your insurance agent (you have an agent I hope) about verification procedures for subcontractor insurance. As for having your unlicensed, uninsured subs sign a waiver to preclude legal action against you, only your attorney is in a position to discuss whether that is legal or feasible in your specific case. Getting advice from an internet chat room on such a critical issue seems foolish at best.
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Old 02-17-2013, 04:32 PM   #5
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Hiring unlicensed uninsured subcontractors for commercial remodel


You you can't get a waiver to protect you----just won't stand up in a court of law----get insured subs or take a chance ---have you seen the cost of a hospital lately? Big chance----why are you acting as the general?

If you think it will save you money on the job---you may be mistaken.
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Old 02-17-2013, 05:15 PM   #6
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Hiring unlicensed uninsured subcontractors for commercial remodel


Okay, lets look at the big Red flags here. Hiring uninsured, unlicensed, non-bonded people to work on a structure that people are going to be in daily. Also the fact that it is a medical facility, certain/many rules apply to the design, systems work, and other variables like ADA, etc. come into play.

Doubtful that any state is going to let unlicensed, non-bonded, non-insured people work on a project of this size. I know that our state will not, and would shut it down in an instant, especially once OSHA and Professional licensing would get wind.

To add, if anyone gets hurt on the property, whether they are hired as a sub, or just walking on site, you will lose everything, once it would go to courts, or when you have to pay for the sheer high amount of medical bills, and therapy needed, if severely injured.
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Old 02-17-2013, 09:27 PM   #7
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Hiring unlicensed uninsured subcontractors for commercial remodel


Your insurance agent may tell you about an umbrella policy to cover workers that do not have their own workers comp and disability policy, and even with you covering the cost the uninsured contractors may be more economical, but, medical offices are a specialty. You really need contractors that know what they are doing, e.g. dentist office, besides your typical domestic water lines and waste lines you usually need pneumatic lines, oxygen lines, nitrious oxide lines, and the electrical requirements for a medical office are more restrictive than for other occupancies such as a business office. Medical insurance payers, e.g. Medicare, can dictate construction standards. Don't meet their standards and the tenant can not deal with that payer.
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:03 AM   #8
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Hiring unlicensed uninsured subcontractors for commercial remodel


whether or not you use licensed/insured sub-contractors or not, i can't imagine putting your family's investment & project at such risk,,, IF, as you post'd, you are a remodeler ( according to your log-on ), this question should be far beyond you by now,,, project managers usually get involved w/contracts ( items of work, insurances, licenses, terms, retainage, payments ), superintendents properly manage the project's completion according to applicable bldg code within budget, & attorneys keep your *** from getting into a sling,,, why you'd risk the family's wealth is beyond my understanding however, in the end, its your family, their $$$, & this is only an online forum
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Old 02-18-2013, 04:44 PM   #9
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Hiring unlicensed uninsured subcontractors for commercial remodel


Quote:
Originally Posted by dfwremodeling View Post
Hi All!
I am new to the site and have been reading the great wealth of information that is being offered.

I am the project manager on a building my family purchased. We are converting a Steak and Shake restaurant into a medical clinic. Since I am in Texas, a General Contractors License is not required. I have interviewed different subcontractors to give me bids and most are uninsured and unlicensed. I have already listed myself as the GC in the city and have the demolition permit. I am at a standstill at this moment waiting for the plumbing and electrical bids to come in. The framing sub contractor has his crew and has many years of experience. I have checked his references and he has done big jobs on both residential and commercial. What has me worried is the liability incase anyone gets hurt. He has assured me that no one will get hurt but I can't take any risks. I have tried to contact insurance companies about getting a workers comp policy and they will get back with me.
Is there a way to hire uninsured subs and have them sign some sort of liablity waiver and lien waivers? Thank you very much for any advice!
If they are not licensed, report them to the state immediately with all paperwork related to them. Don't even humor it.

If they aren't insured, most likely they are not bonded, meaning they are most likely not licensed. Feed them to the wolves.

Do NOT permit ANYONE to do ANY work on your home without a license, if they are taking MONEY from you DO NOT allow them to do anykind of work in anyway, shape, or form without a license. PERIOD.

Not only will you get fined (can be anywhere from $50 to $70,000) for having illegal alterations to a commercial establishment made (because you can't get permits without licenses for commercial work) you can lose your property to the state.

Use someone who's actually LICENSED including sub contractors. Make requirement ALL sub contractors to be licensed, or NO contract!

OH and for added bonus, being a MEDICAL FACILITY! you get to play with the HEALTH DEPARTMENT for all work done on the building. Find one unlicensed person doing work, guess what? If it's anything like WA, you just scored yourself a $5,000 per task, per operation, for endangering the health of the public.

Think before you do.

EDIT

forgot to mention, because you're transforming into a medical clinic, now you get to deal with the Health Department, why you ask? because they have specific requirements for medical facilities on everything to where lights are located, to where the sinks are located, to how the rooms have to be designed and configured, and placement of all electrical recepticles, etc. You're no where near ready if you haven't consulted your local Health Department.

Furthermore, as said before, if ONE person is unlicensed, and periodic building inspections during construction aren't made, you can lose your property to the state. As well as face penalties, fines, and possible criminal charges for endangering the public. Use your head and really think about that.


Last edited by GarrettFiveZero; 02-18-2013 at 05:11 PM.
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