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Old 12-07-2010, 01:04 AM   #1
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Hey guys, I have a situation that needs some expert input. I'm building a small room addition (for a friend) in a Special FX shop. The shop is about 20' high but the wall is only going up 10'. I've attached the two walls (one with a framed door opening) to the existing metal stud walls (There are 2 metal stud wall and two wooden stud walls). I removed the drywall and attached directly to the metal studs using self taping screws in the end studs of my new (wooden walls). That isn't the issue. The issue now is that I need to install the ceiling joists, but I'm worried that the metal stud wall won't support the weight, as I need to attach mid way up the 20 foot wall. I was thinking of cutting the drywall at the ceiling joist line, and attaching a 2x8 rim joist (not sure that's the right term) to the metal stud wall, and then using metal joist hangers to hang the joists to that 2x8. The other end will sit on top of the new (wooden stud) wall.

So my questions are: Can I attach a 2x8 to the metal studs to hang ceiling joists? Will that be strong enough to use the open area above the ceiling for shop storage (and for people to walk around up there)? Is there a better solution?

I need as many answers as I can get by 10:00 a.m. Tomorrow (Dec. 7th)

Thanks in advance!!

Alfred

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Old 12-07-2010, 03:12 AM   #2
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might it be better to build a wall for the trusses/joists to sit on? what kind of weight is going to be on this ceiling?

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Old 12-07-2010, 07:10 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfredart View Post
Hey guys, I have a situation that needs some expert input. I'm building a small room addition (for a friend) in a Special FX shop. The shop is about 20' high but the wall is only going up 10'. I've attached the two walls (one with a framed door opening) to the existing metal stud walls (There are 2 metal stud wall and two wooden stud walls). I removed the drywall and attached directly to the metal studs using self taping screws in the end studs of my new (wooden walls). That isn't the issue. The issue now is that I need to install the ceiling joists, but I'm worried that the metal stud wall won't support the weight, as I need to attach mid way up the 20 foot wall. I was thinking of cutting the drywall at the ceiling joist line, and attaching a 2x8 rim joist (not sure that's the right term) to the metal stud wall, and then using metal joist hangers to hang the joists to that 2x8. The other end will sit on top of the new (wooden stud) wall.

So my questions are: Can I attach a 2x8 to the metal studs to hang ceiling joists? Will that be strong enough to use the open area above the ceiling for shop storage (and for people to walk around up there)? Is there a better solution?

I need as many answers as I can get by 10:00 a.m. Tomorrow (Dec. 7th)

Thanks in advance!!

Alfred
Good luck with getting answers by 10:00am. Why didn't you figure this out before you started?

If you had an architect or engineer design this and draw plans for you, you could ask them the questions. Why don't you call the building inspector and ask him. He's the one that should've signed off on your permits so that he can inspect this.They usually open at 9:00am.
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Old 12-07-2010, 07:19 AM   #4
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No plan, no permit, no clue.
Now there’s a recipe for disaster.

I suggest you STOP and hire a pro to develop a plan for you that will meet local code and get a permit.

That process will answer all of your questions.
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Old 12-07-2010, 07:34 AM   #5
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Is this a commercial building?

What is the span of the ceiling?

Metal studs holding up a structure designed for a minimum of 50#/ft2????? I agree with previous comments, you really should have a plan submitted for engineering review.

The last thing you would want to happen is the whole thing come crashing down.
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Old 12-07-2010, 08:08 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfredart View Post
Hey guys, I have a situation that needs some expert input. I'm building a small room addition (for a friend) in a Special FX shop. The shop is about 20' high but the wall is only going up 10'. I've attached the two walls (one with a framed door opening) to the existing metal stud walls (There are 2 metal stud wall and two wooden stud walls). I removed the drywall and attached directly to the metal studs using self taping screws in the end studs of my new (wooden walls). That isn't the issue. The issue now is that I need to install the ceiling joists, but I'm worried that the metal stud wall won't support the weight, as I need to attach mid way up the 20 foot wall. I was thinking of cutting the drywall at the ceiling joist line, and attaching a 2x8 rim joist (not sure that's the right term) to the metal stud wall, and then using metal joist hangers to hang the joists to that 2x8. The other end will sit on top of the new (wooden stud) wall.

So my questions are: Can I attach a 2x8 to the metal studs to hang ceiling joists? Will that be strong enough to use the open area above the ceiling for shop storage (and for people to walk around up there)? Is there a better solution?

I need as many answers as I can get by 10:00 a.m. Tomorrow (Dec. 7th)

Thanks in advance!!

Alfred
Alfred, I know the guys here were a little rough on you but they just don't want to see you or anyone else get killed and from what you have described that is a good possibility. There are way too many things wrong to even start to tell you why not to do these things. Please do get an engineer or contractor or home inspector to take a look at what you are doing, you really, really do need to have a professional check out what you are doing and what you had planned to do.
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Old 12-07-2010, 10:45 AM   #7
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Jiju1943, I don't want anyone to get hurt or killed by this project either, that's why I reached out for help. I've actually built hundreds of room additions before (most with permits and a few without), I've just never come up with the issue of tying a ceiling into a metal stud wall. I asked you guys because i was hoping that someone had dealt with this before and could provide a solution.

Jackofall1: This is a commercial building and we got permission from the building owner to do this small addition. The room is 10x9.5 and the joists are running along the 9.5 direction. I was planning on spacing them at 24" o/c (as the room next to it has been done). By looking at the way the room next to it was done, they used stacked 2x4 along the metal stud wall and simply sat the joists on that. It's not an elegant solution and it doesn't look like it would be solid, but the space above that room has been used for storage. I don't want to build it that way though. My thought was attaching the 2x8 header to the metal studs and then hanging my joists using metal hangers.

Jklingel: That was my initial solution to the problem. The ceiling would be used mostly for storage - light weight items as they would need to be carried up there, but I'm sure the weight would start to add up as the space fills up. We would loose a few inches in the room but the ceiling would be properly supported. Perhaps I could turn the pockets into shelving for storage. I would still need to attach the new wall to metal stud wall, but being anchored to the ground and the adjoining wooden wall on the right, should make it plenty stable. I'll consider that my second choice if I can't get a viable solution for tying into the metal studs.

Thanks for your concern. Like I said I don't want anyone to get hurt either. I was just looking for a solution to this particular issue which has never come up for me.

-Alfred
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Old 12-07-2010, 11:28 AM   #8
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if the metal studs are not structural/proper gauge you need a structural wall with proper footing below.
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Old 12-07-2010, 11:35 AM   #9
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"Jackofall1: This is a commercial building and we got permission from the building owner to do this small addition. The room is 10x9.5 and the joists are running along the 9.5 direction. I was planning on spacing them at 24" o/c (as the room next to it has been done). By looking at the way the room next to it was done, they used stacked 2x4 along the metal stud wall and simply sat the joists on that. It's not an elegant solution and it doesn't look like it would be solid, but the space above that room has been used for storage. I don't want to build it that way though. My thought was attaching the 2x8 header to the metal studs and then hanging my joists using metal hangers."

http://www.awci.org/cd/pdfs/9004_f.pdf

You peaked my interest as to understanding the ways to go about handling your question.

You will see by the attached that a metal stub wall has to be spefically designed to be considered for load bearing usage. And in all design considerations the downward force of the load bearing surface must be on top of the metal stud wall, not side loaded as you are suggesting.

The reason I asked if this was a commercial site was, there are certain fire codes which drive the necessity for construction of partition walls utilizing metal studs and 5/8" dry wall.

And while I am at it, is there fire protection in the building (ie sprinklers), if there is (and I would be truly surprised if there wasn't) then adding a mezzanine will definately be a big no no, unless you are planning on bringing in a sprinkler contractor to design and add additional protection under your newly built mezzanine. You would also have to consider egress lighting and lighted exit signs.

Did the owner give permission in writing stating that he will be responsible for any and all criminal ramnifications should a fire happen and lord forbid, kill or injure someone because of the structure you are intending to build.

And as my last point your buddy should be submitting a drawing of this modification to his insurance company for their comments and approval, otherwise the insurance company could easily refuse payment in the event of a loss prevention or liability claim.

I know this may all sound harsh, but without considering future ramnificaitons, you may be putting yourself and your friend in the line of fire. Just my random thoughts for all they are worth.
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Last edited by Jackofall1; 12-07-2010 at 11:42 AM.
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Old 12-07-2010, 12:05 PM   #10
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Thanks for your help. I'll definitely be building the small wall and sitting the ceiling on that. As far as my friend getting permission in writing, I'm not sure. That's a good point. I'll point out to my friend that the space above can't be used as an extra work space. That's what I told him initially but I said I'd look into it.

You've made a lot of great points and have been very helpful. Thank you.

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