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Old 04-10-2013, 06:52 AM   #16
Mold!! Let's kill it!
 
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Originally Posted by Windows on Wash View Post
+1

Common misconception.

It does do a pretty good job of interrupting the growth cycle but it does not render mold completely dead.
That right there is B.S.

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Old 04-10-2013, 07:27 PM   #17
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trying to salvage insulation with bleach is a shot in the dark. plan on new insualtion and new house wrap if the sun has deteriorated the house wrap. the reason that you do not know about this happening in your area to similarly constructed houses is because no one has pulled the insulation to check after months of it being in the wall with only house wrap on the exterior...
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Old 04-10-2013, 08:26 PM   #18
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No way would I be trying to use wet insulation.
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Old 04-10-2013, 08:31 PM   #19
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If you've got mold growing in fiberglass insulation, it needs to be tossed and replaced. If it is growing on dust accumulated on expanded foam insulation, then spray some detergent on it and hose it off. As for stuff growing on sheathing, you need to expose it, clean it off with a detergent, then treat it with a fungicide. Let it dry and get it covered and weatherproof.

And bleach will kill mold, bacterias, viruses and even you if you mis-use it.
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Old 04-10-2013, 10:16 PM   #20
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If you've got mold growing in fiberglass insulation, it needs to be tossed and replaced. If it is growing on dust accumulated on expanded foam insulation, then spray some detergent on it and hose it off. As for stuff growing on sheathing, you need to expose it, clean it off with a detergent, then treat it with a fungicide. Let it dry and get it covered and weatherproof.

And bleach will kill mold, bacterias, viruses and even you if you mis-use it.
well yes your part way right on that here is the limits of bleach.
http://moldbeater.com/a-word-on-bleach.html
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Old 04-11-2013, 06:26 AM   #21
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To be clear, I have no intention of reusing wet insulation or any insulation that's near the moldy spots. I was mainly just looking for a way to get rid of the mold and keep it from coming back. Also, I was wondering what caused it.
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Old 04-11-2013, 09:26 AM   #22
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That right there is B.S.
Maintenance,

You know I dig a bunch of your posts and really think you add a bunch to the discussion but I will have to disagree with you here.

I used to be a supervisor on mold and asbestos remediation crews and we never used bleach. While it is partially effective and certainly the most widely available product that the DIY'er can readily get and deploy, there are better products that have better chemistry and effectiveness.

Bleach, while widely available, is often more toxic and has more associated dangers with it than the dedicated cleaners that are more effective.

I think that simple borax and vinegar are more effective in some cases and probably just as available.

http://www.spore-tech.com/viewcatego...?idcategory=78

Here is part of the summary study from Oregon State (http://www.cof.orst.edu/coops/utilpo...2004Taylor.pdf ):
While bleach is often recommended for remediation of surface mold on wood, our results illustrate that the treatment does not eliminate the surface microflora. As a result, an important component of remediation must be drying to moisture levels below 20 percent (the generally accepted level for inhibiting growth of fungi on wood) (Zabel andMorrell 1992). In the absence of drying, some fungi clearly survive the treatment and may re-colonize the surface.


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Old 04-12-2013, 07:52 AM   #23
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Maintenance,

You know I dig a bunch of your posts and really think you add a bunch to the discussion but I will have to disagree with you here.

I used to be a supervisor on mold and asbestos remediation crews and we never used bleach. While it is partially effective and certainly the most widely available product that the DIY'er can readily get and deploy, there are better products that have better chemistry and effectiveness.

Bleach, while widely available, is often more toxic and has more associated dangers with it than the dedicated cleaners that are more effective.

I think that simple borax and vinegar are more effective in some cases and probably just as available.

http://www.spore-tech.com/viewcatego...?idcategory=78

Here is part of the summary study from Oregon State (http://www.cof.orst.edu/coops/utilpo...2004Taylor.pdf ):
While bleach is often recommended for remediation of surface mold on wood, our results illustrate that the treatment does not eliminate the surface microflora. As a result, an important component of remediation must be drying to moisture levels below 20 percent (the generally accepted level for inhibiting growth of fungi on wood) (Zabel andMorrell 1992). In the absence of drying, some fungi clearly survive the treatment and may re-colonize the surface.

Well,
I'm at least glad that you have had some kind of experience with mold, unlike most people on here. I have been certified and actively involved with mold remediation and asbestos abatement for 15 years. A couple of things I have leartned. The internet is not the place to gather too many facts about mold. (too many people havethe idea that because it's on the internet it must be true). I especially do not pay much attention to sites that are selling "magic mold potions". I've read the oregon study on dougles fir staining. Honestly, I do question their methods in how they handled their control samples. I suggest that you read this one.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-relea...-72154197.html

That mold beater site is a comedy act. Nowhere does it even claim to be a fungicide. And I couldn't find an MSDS listed to tell what active ingrediants are in it. NORMI leads you to believe they are some organization that represents the mold remediation industry, when in fact, they are more along the lines of a franching organization.
You really need to read this very, very carefully. It is artfully word-smithed.
http://www.normi.org/articles/bleach-mold.php In addition, he claims to have mold growing on a shingled roof. Now I've seen plenty of algae on roofs. It would be really tough to get a sustainable mold colony to set up shop on an asphalt roof.

I don't typically use sodium hypochlorite on remediation jobs, but not because it doesn't kill mold. The problem that it presents is a safety issue. It is too easy to misuse, and it is a fact that it creates some compound gases that you don't want to be breathing. As far as penetrating into porous surfaces, bleach is no better or worse than any other product if handled properly. (Mix bleach with a wetting agent and it will penetrate as good as anything else)

Keep in mind that we are killing mold here, not aliens. Molds are as fragile a lifeform as any other.

So, all that said, here is my story
Bleach kills mold
Bleach by itself does not pentrate porous surfaces, but add a surfactant to it and it will penetrate as well as any other fungicide
Bleach is not listed as a fungicide, because to do so would be a nightmare for grocery distributers, stores and consumers.
Almost any nasty chemical will kill mold, but the most common are phenols, quaternary ammonias and sodium hypochlorite.

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Old 04-12-2013, 08:38 AM   #24
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I agree with you.

The internet is not the bastion of all information.

My contention, just as yours, is that I don't like bleach as compared to some other less nefarious chemical options that are designed to work better out of the box.

Thanks for the information and solid discussion.
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Old 04-15-2013, 07:05 AM   #25
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Well, the brick guys finished the south side of the house so I pulled the insulation out of that wall. Basically every cavity had mold, but only on the top half of the wall, and none above or below the window. Can anyone explain why this would be? Just trying to narrow down where the moisture came from, thought this might help.
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Old 04-15-2013, 10:40 AM   #26
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If I was you, I would break out a hose and do a thorough water test of any walls where you had mold before putting anything back, just to eliminate the possibility of rain water entry into your wall system.
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Old 04-15-2013, 12:49 PM   #27
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Without seeing it, we would only be guessing at the source. My first guess would be a condensation issue that trapped moisture behind the insulation during some part of the construction. No damness in the lower half of the cavity possibly because there was a less radical temperature change and the moisture never condensed there. None above or below the window because the space was close enough to normal atmosphere for it to dry out. Moisture got in during construction from rainfall above and the volume was only enough to wet the cavity partway? It's all just speculation. Remove the insulatiuon, scrub the mold off with a detergent and a stiff brush. Let it dry and then treat it with a fungicide. When that dries, then reinsulate and finish the walls.
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Old 04-15-2013, 11:50 PM   #28
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Well, the brick guys finished the south side of the house so I pulled the insulation out of that wall. Basically every cavity had mold, but only on the top half of the wall, and none above or below the window. Can anyone explain why this would be? Just trying to narrow down where the moisture came from, thought this might help.
The top half the wall is warmer (especial;ly with overhead ducting/registers) than the bottom inside the basement (warm air rises and stratifies unless people move around to mix it). The moisture from the furnace/sump pump/condensate drain, air recirculating through the furnace with moisture added from people upstairs through the RASupply; bath, clothes wash, cooking, unless caught in the furnace --is condensing on the colder OSB after it passes through the f.g. batt insulation. You have no air barrier (drywall) in front of the thermal barrier.
As Jagans said; fastener holes could be the cause, though the OSB would need to be saturated fully to mold on the inside, 30% vs 8% w. 2 layer H.W., pp6; http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...nbzenw&cad=rja

I'd be more concerned the housewrap itself is compromised, one layer at that, have them add a layer of builders felt, fig.6; http://www.buildingscience.com/docum...-perfect-storm

At least if on the south (sunny) side; http://www.buildingscience.com/docum...n-brick-veneer

Gary
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Old 04-16-2013, 08:04 AM   #29
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That last link is excellent Gary, Thanks.

I wish more builders & masons understood the severity of solar driven rain especially with today's absorbent brick and tight interior VB's. Too many "professionals" still believe that brick veneer is waterproof, leading to a disaster down the road.........

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