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Old 01-01-2009, 10:01 PM   #16
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Help With Basement Flooding !!!!


Thanks ...your first part makes a lot of sense and that's what I was thinking as well....we do have check valves as well... I'm positive that there are no obstructions....I know and it's very frustrating because short of lifting up the house you can only do so much but in your opinion, do you think a french drain would solve this problem in addition to a VERY heavy duty pump?? I guess we'll find out when this stops and the spring thaw starts because we'll definitely have a HEAVY DUTY PUMP BY THEN !!

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Old 01-01-2009, 10:02 PM   #17
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...It's funny ....this looks like a thread that has just become the two of us....but I do appreciate your help....
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Old 01-01-2009, 11:21 PM   #18
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Help With Basement Flooding !!!!


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Originally Posted by gottabee View Post
...It's funny ....this looks like a thread that has just become the two of us....but I do appreciate your help....
I would do the larger pump. It is a fairly cheap (few hundred dollars). I would say to evaluate your gutters and overall grading in the summer. A truck load or two or dirt can make a huge difference.
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Old 01-02-2009, 06:46 AM   #19
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Help With Basement Flooding !!!!


basic rules of water: 1, it runs downhill; 2, rushes to fill a void; 3, seeks its own level; & 4, takes the path of least resistance,,, 1 can always add a 5th - it usually winds up in our basements,,, could list the most common reasons but that can wait - its the house as is now !

sounds as if you're underpump'd,,, we used 1/3hp zoeller pumps w/mechanical float switches on vertical shaft rather'n the floating ping-pong switch - generally 2 over 100ft of sub-floor system but more IF the soil / water conditions demanded,,, the wtr coming up thru the floor's excess water table not handled by the pumps.

' why does the water come in the house for 24 hours then stop even though the water in the sump does not? ' - because the sump bottom's lower than the house,,, its just a dropping wtr table IF i read your post correctly.

1 more thing - this wtr's formed innumerable underground waterways after all the years,,, yes, it can be stopped but at several multiples of $10K,,, just the idea of sumps/pumps WITHOUT the accompanying sub-floor water management ( french drain, if you will, but actually, by definition, a french drain is surface only al a versailles, fr ) will usually not work as you're experiencing,,, my recommendation's you gotta get a perimeter pipe UNDER the floor &, possibly, have 2 more laterally as/if needed,,, then again, we only did this work professionally in the ny-nj-ct-pa metro area.

good luck, eh ?

Last edited by yesitsconcrete; 01-02-2009 at 06:53 AM.
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Old 01-02-2009, 06:59 AM   #20
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Help With Basement Flooding !!!!


per jamie's post, of course gutter drains & exterior positive grading can't hurt nor can larger pumps altho, in 5/6 yrs of doing this work professionally, can only recall once when we switched to 1/2hp rather'n our std 1/3hp,but, from your posts, i'd guess you're bright enough to have already figured that out,,, just remember & imagine your basement's like a ship's hull from the waterline down & it all becomes easier to plan solutions.
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Old 01-02-2009, 09:22 AM   #21
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Help With Basement Flooding !!!!


What is weeping tile? A perforated pipe? Does it go all the way around your foundation? If so it is a French drain. Properly installed, it is below the level of your basement floor. A sump pump pit (sump) should be located at the lowest point. Lacking a pit and pump on the outside, the system just fills with water that eventually finds it way to your inside sump pump pit and/or up through your basement floor.

Normally if you have a French drain (with pit and pump) just outside the perimeter, you don't need one inside.

Now we could go into permutations such as run a 4 inch pipe from the outside French drain (under/through your foundation) to your existing inside pit so the pump taking care of it all can be mounted inside and not freeze. But if your only pit is not at the low point of the outside pipe, then you really need another pit. A 4 inch pipe system (plus pump of adequate capacity) should be able to take care of all situations except if an underground creek runs through your property.

Last edited by AllanJ; 01-02-2009 at 08:05 PM.
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Old 01-02-2009, 09:55 AM   #22
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we often mistakenly call ' French drain ' a ollection pipe installed underground usually under the basement floor when, in truth, its a surface drain cleverly invented by the french when building the palace at versailles, a suburb of paris,,, a pavement stone collection system, it directed rainwater to the tulleries ( reflecting ponds/pools ) under the hall of mirrors,,, since then, its become known & understood as, today, a french drain ' when more properly, in engineering vocabulary, we know it as a sub-floor water management system.

some use perforated 4" s & d pvc, others choose ads corrugated pipe,,, in some instances, soil filter fabric encloses the pipe ( sock ) but we found it best to line the trench w/fabric prior to stone bedding/fill as the sock'd allow silt too close to the collection pipe.

we always used 1 1/2" pvc for discharge.
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Old 01-02-2009, 01:44 PM   #23
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Help With Basement Flooding !!!!


To everyone that's joined in...here is the update....thank goodness but last night our first pump (we have the two pumps in one pit...one is elevated higher than the other)was able to handle the flow coming into the sump pit....and as of right now...it's actually going off and on...so the flow is reducing and hopefully in a day or so, it will stop and we'll have to get ready for the Spring thaw....I picked up 100' of corrugated pipe today and have attached it to the output discharge so that I can get the water even further away...we went through this last spring and had the new pumps installed and we thought that we would be okay, obviously that's not the case and the water eventually stops coming in the sump pit so I'm thinking that there is no creek under us but rather a rising water table and that our pumps were still not enough to deal with the heavy water flow.....we will remedy that before the Spring thaw...and if that fails and we still get water from the perimeter of the house then we will have no option but to install a french drain with it's own sump pit and another pump..

Just out of curiosity ....when the water is coming through the inlet into the sump pit....if that inlet is covered with water from inside the pit because the pumps couldn't keep up...will that build up enough pressure to cause the seepage into the floor/wall joint ??
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Old 01-02-2009, 02:27 PM   #24
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Help With Basement Flooding !!!!


Depending on how porous the ground is and how saturated with water the ground is, you can have seepage through teh basement floor even if the level of water in the pit is lower than the basemet floor.

If you are curious, dig a hole next to the foundation outside to see how far down you go before you hit water. The water table outside could well be different, could well be higher than that inside. Then if you wish to you could dig further down, below basement floor level, and make it into another sump pump pit.
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Old 01-02-2009, 02:42 PM   #25
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if your present water's being discharged downhill according to surface slope, doubtful the extra 100 of pipe'll help but what the hell - try it anyway,,, kind of unusual to have 2 pumps in 1 sump in residential but those guys got paid & they're gone don't recall if you've mentioned the walls ( conc or block ) nor if they're also leaking so that's another sign of high water table,,, any system should be a FULL perimeter w/pipe high points 1/2way 'tween the sumps/pumps,,, remember the rules of water - seeks its own level & takes the path of least resistance,,, so yes, it will seek escape & run to daylight - in your instance, out of the cove ( junction of wall & floor ) & up thru the floor.

good luck !
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Old 01-02-2009, 02:52 PM   #26
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Help With Basement Flooding !!!!


gottabee -

It is good to hear your water problem appears to be decreasing.

Digging a hole outside may show you nothing if you have the type of soil that varies by location and can create a localized water table.

In going through the previous posts, I could not determine whether your drain tile were inside or outside of the footing or both. If you have exterior drain tile and clay soil, this would not be immediately effective in reducing the water and pressure under the slab that is coming up. Are the sumps inside ot outside. - I may have missed a part of the long posts.

The new extension should eliminate/minimize the problem of getting the water away. Since it is probably 4" solid corrugated is will handle the discharge of the 2" line, but not as well as solid pvc (more $s). Ihope it is not perforated.

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Old 01-02-2009, 06:00 PM   #27
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Help With Basement Flooding !!!!


Hey guys.....we have exterior drain tile (weeping tile) around the exterior perimeter of the house by the footings which drains into our sump pit which is in our basement ....our plumbers are still in business but from what I understand ...it is not unusual to have two pumps in a residential house....they call it piggybacking.....more so if one should fail....you have a back up...but we aren't in the city, we live in a rural area and with two pumps being able to pump out 33 gpm each, that's 66 gpm and obviously not enough.....so we'll get a really large capacity pump ... hey Dick....oh yeah...it's solid....definitely not perforated....
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Old 01-02-2009, 07:56 PM   #28
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Help With Basement Flooding !!!!


I'm still hesitant to want to quickly dig up the basement floor and install a French drain along the perimeter on the inside.

Instead I would want to first see if seepage through the basement floor ceases and desists within several hours after the surface of the water in the existing pit is kept below a certain level. This would signify that getting rid of water around the perimeter on the outside influences any water table under the house.

How far below the basement floor level is the pit inlet from the outside?

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Old 01-02-2009, 09:25 PM   #29
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AllanJ......we have the basement floor, the sump is in it, the inlet to the sump under the floor is a 4" pipe.....from the top of the inlet pipe to the basement floor is about 6" ...your suggestion is what we are planning on doing.....and as opposed to going up 10' to discharge from the sump...there is a good chance we will excavate and have the discharge pipe go out below grade to prevent freezing and that way the distance will only be about 3' from the bottom of the pit so this way the pumps will be more efficient...perhaps we should have done that before and we wouldn't be facing this problem ...the only way to know is to wait and see...
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Old 01-03-2009, 03:42 AM   #30
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plumbers try waterproofing-water management w/low success rate but still take the work,,, here's what i see: error #1; exterior water brought inside rather'n left OUTSIDE & then discharged ( sump - pump - riser - cover ); #2, 2 pumps in 1 sump ( prefer 1 in ea dedicated sump ); #3, only 1 sump ( inexperience anticipating watertable ); & #4, underpumped.

.3hp pump's got enough power/capacity to hit 10',,, if you plan to discharge thru 4" pvc smooth pipe w/sufficient slope ( 1/4" - 10' drop ), its silly digging trench to frost level as you'd reduce slope needed for velocity,,, w/normal frost/temp conditions, IF it were mine, i'd have 1/2" - 10' & pipe running to daylight OR storm sewer,,, would also pick 1/2hp pumps & water-powered backup pump,,, impo, battery backups're better'n a sharp stick in the eye but a waste of $ in your house.

know you don't want to hear this but if you don't have the $/time to fix this properly, when/where'll you ever find 'em to do it over ? ? ? you may have to bite the bullet,,, good luck.

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