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Cghost · 10-17-2009, 11:08 PM

My first post, so point me in the right direction if needed. Adding island 6" hood vent thru the outside wall. Have a dropped ceiling with a floor above. Want to make sure prior to cutting thru a load bearing sill plate or header joist...there is also a previous 4" hole for the dryer vent. Is anything in the end of this bay loadbearing? Please see pic and let me know how screwed up I am...thanks in advance!

Shane

GBR in WA · 10-17-2009, 11:45 PM

1. That 4" hole should not be in that single joist if it is supporting others on hangers. The hole is so close to the bottom that the header joist (supporting) strength has been compromised (tension, within 1-1/2" of bottom).

2. You cannot hide electrical outlet boxes or junction boxes in a concealed space (second ceiling).

3. The hangers on both the joists are under-sized to carry them.

4. The cable going into the box is supposed to have the sheathing on the wires minimum 1/4" into the box.

5. The wires need a cable clamp at the box, or stapled within 8" of the box.
Yes, it looks load-bearing, and more pictures would be helpful.

Be safe, Gary

Willie T · 10-17-2009, 11:56 PM

Well................ You DID ask.

Thurman · 10-18-2009, 12:02 AM

Good call GBR. And as "Willie T" stated: you did ask. BUT- IF you had not asked at this forum, where would you be now? Thanks, David

Cghost · 10-18-2009, 04:57 AM

Thanks GBR, no problem at all with your detailed response, much appreciated. Now on to the remedies...

1. How to repair the compromised joist(s)? Upon further review it looks like all joists in this area are doubled. Does this change anything?

2. What is the area below the joist and can the hole(s) be relocated to that area?

3. What size hanger joists are required? It's a doubler hanger.

4. I was aware of the electrical issues and plan to remedy. (should have stated that previously...sorry)

This home is VERY new to me (less than two months) and the joist hangers being undersized really concerns me, as well as all of the other issues, including electrical. Wonder what my options are at this point? The home was inspected previous to purchase...these areas were not accessible without removing drywall. Could these things have been grandathered in on a house built in the late 80s?

Oh, and can someone tell me what the framing terms are for the area with the hole already in it (doubled 2x10s) and for the area underneath (doubled 2x6s). Are these both structural or is there one that can be penetrated for vent ducting? This is the 2nd/3rd floor separation on a 3 story townhouse.

Again, thanks in advance!
Shane

GBR in WA · 10-18-2009, 06:08 PM

Notches And Holes
Sec. 2326.12.4. Notches and holes. Notching at the ends of rafters or ceiling joists shall not exceed one sixth the depth and shall not be located in the middle one third of the span, except that a notch not exceeding one third of the depth is permitted in the top of the rafter or ceiling joist not further from the face of the support than the depth of the member.
Holes bored in rafters or ceiling joists shall not be within 2 inches (51 mm) of the top and bottom and their diameter shall not exceed one third the depth og the member.

Notice 1/3 of joist size for maximum hole size and 2" minimum wood remaining over and under hole. With the wall underneath the header joist, You need to find if it (wall) is bearing or not. The double joist has definitely been weakened from the hole being too close to the bottom edge, -2". You really need a Contractor or Structural Engineer to evaluate this as it is impossible over the internet. They would see: why the double header joist if a wall below; if wall below has bearing to footing under building; read the hanger label for verification of it's proper use; check the point loads on the ends of the header joist for bearing to ground; and have a solution to fix the hole in header joist to gain full bearing.

Could you post: 1. pic of exterior wall from 6' away in basement under hole? 2. pic of wall 10' away from basement same area, wider shot?
There are only a couple of reasons to use a header floor joist above on an exterior basement wall. If the ceiling height is low, use header to carry floor over a window. (eliminates the window header below floor line) And, there may be a bump-out in the foundation which now has a framed wall dividing it.

Be safe, Gary

Cghost · 10-18-2009, 07:15 PM

Here are three pics. As you can see, there is a deck. Although it's very tough to tell in the photos, there are no overhangs or bump outs (straight up from basement to top floor).

I agree, it's time to call in the specialists and ensure saftey is adhered to...too bad we aren't able to use an x-ray when performing the house inspection!

Thanks again for the help and honesty.

Shane

Cghost · 10-24-2009, 11:52 PM

Just an update. I've had an inspector look at the situation. He pointed out that this is a modular townhouse and that the double rim joist is in fact, not structural. I have not yet cut anything due to continued concern...am I just being overly cautious?

GBR in WA · 10-25-2009, 01:23 PM

"am I just being overly cautious?" ----- Yes, you are as there is a structural wall below. This is a first for me, to see a double rim joist with hangers that is supported by a wall. They must pre-build the floor and install by crane during assembly. The double rim acts to hold it all together with extra perimeter nailing for the rated shear flow floor required. It is very strong, not to worry.
Just open the drop ceiling to enlarge the hole up and away from the metal joist hanger. Are you comfortable installing ducting per code? If not, just ask!

Be safe, Gary