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Old 02-01-2012, 04:25 PM   #1
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Header question


I was just thinking....
I've built a few window and door headers out of 2x12s. Plenty strong and no need for cripples. but no insulation either. I wonder if substituting 1/2" foam for the 1/2" plywood would add a significant thermal break????

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Old 02-01-2012, 05:42 PM   #2
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1/2 " foam wont do much of anything.. you need atleast 1" for it to be effective, your only getting like r-2 of of 1/2 "

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Old 02-01-2012, 05:48 PM   #3
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Header question


Quote:
Originally Posted by ratherbefishing View Post
I was just thinking....
I've built a few window and door headers out of 2x12s. Plenty strong and no need for cripples. but no insulation either. I wonder if substituting 1/2" foam for the 1/2" plywood would add a significant thermal break????
I have never built a header with no cripples. The way I learned, jack/cripple studs are they way walls are built when a header is installed for a window or door. Without jack studs, you are relying on the fastener to hold the header in place. I don't think that is the way it's supposed to be done.


2x12 header for a door? That might be overkill. However, I believe jack studs (cripples, whatever) are necessary in the construction of any header.

I just read your post and had to comment.

Just use 1/2" plywood for the header. Foam would do nothing for r value that could be noticed.

Just my opinion. Take it or leave it. No disrespect intended.

Peace.

Last edited by Beanfacekilla; 02-01-2012 at 05:57 PM.
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Old 02-01-2012, 07:22 PM   #4
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Header question


Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanfacekilla

I have never built a header with no cripples.

However, I believe jack studs (cripples, whatever) are necessary in the construction of any header.


Peace.
I thought cripples were the 'studs' above the header, and jacks supported the header. There is a difference...yes?
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Old 02-01-2012, 07:40 PM   #5
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Header question


Quote:
Originally Posted by jlmran

I thought cripples were the 'studs' above the header, and jacks supported the header. There is a difference...yes?
Jacks..go under the header cripples go above the header...
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Old 02-01-2012, 08:14 PM   #6
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the jack stud is what the header sits directly on to transfer the load down to the plate.. cripples are short studs which are used to build the opening down or up
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Old 02-01-2012, 08:30 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodworkbykirk
cripples are short studs which are used to build the opening down or up
and to support the top plate above the header.
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Old 02-01-2012, 08:32 PM   #8
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The hip bone is attached to the leg bone....
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Old 02-01-2012, 08:43 PM   #9
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"I wonder if substituting 1/2" foam for the 1/2" plywood would add a significant thermal break???? "----------- Good idea! In fact, that is a requirement when using "advanced framing"; http://books.google.com/books?id=LR4...raming&f=false

The foam is not so much an insulator, but a "thermal break" to stop conductive losses through that header to the outside temperatures: http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/...ation-overview

We are going to see more exterior foamboard in the 2012 IRC, among other things: http://austin-green-builder.com/2012...e-irc-changes/

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Old 02-01-2012, 10:14 PM   #10
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I thought cripples were the 'studs' above the header, and jacks supported the header. There is a difference...yes?
Ahhh. Yes you are correct. I was thinking the whole time about the jack studs. My mistake.

I am relieved from all responsibilty for errors because I always say it is my opinion.

But yes... correct.

That being said, I feel both are necessary in correct framing. However, with a 2x12 header, would there even be room for cripples? That would make sense from what the OP said.

As for the foam being a thermal break...

You learn something new every day. I had not thought of it in this way. Perhaps I should do this if I ever find myself framing a door/window opening.


P.S. Thanx to all for not busting my chops too bad about the jack/cripple fiasco.

Peace.

Last edited by Beanfacekilla; 02-01-2012 at 10:21 PM.
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Old 02-01-2012, 10:47 PM   #11
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"P.S. Thanx to all for not busting my chops too bad about the jack/cripple fiasco."---- It was your name that deterred me........LOL.

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Old 02-01-2012, 11:20 PM   #12
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Header question


For really good insulation look into plywood box beams, you can get 2&3/4 styrofoam in them or more depends on wall thickness.
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Old 02-02-2012, 08:58 AM   #13
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Header question


Interesting suggestion re the plywood box beam for headers. Wondering if this is readily accepted by building officials.
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Old 02-02-2012, 01:49 PM   #14
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Header question


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Interesting suggestion re the plywood box beam for headers. Wondering if this is readily accepted by building officials.
They can be purchased commercially so I would assume so.
The deal with using 2x12 was because of time saving. Less cutting measuring nailing than using cripples. However, for nominal 6" exterior walls, a box beam would allow more insulation but less of a thermal break because of the top and bottom plates on it, whereas 3-2x12 would allow two 1/2" foam or one 1" for a thermal break
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Old 02-02-2012, 03:43 PM   #15
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Header question


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That being said, I feel both are necessary in correct framing. However, with a 2x12 header, would there even be room for cripples? That would make sense from what the OP said.


Peace.
well..not everybody has 8' ceilings ....

So yes, there is a need for cripples.....here's the trick....for a 32" could you get away with the top plate spanning it? maybe.....but it depends on whats above, certainly not if there is any load from above (unless there is engineering to ok it, i would love to see the look on their face....huh?).

for 10ft + ceilings what will you screw the drywall too with no cripples?

etc, etc, etc....so rather than answer those questions, just cut the 2 or 3 cripples and nail them in and get on with the day.

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