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Hardiplank siding

15K views 15 replies 6 participants last post by  Luke 
#1 ·
In a couple of weeks, I'm going to start residing my house using Hardiplank siding.
Currently, the house has vinyl siding over 1" of foam and then the original cedar shingles.
The sheathing is T&G planks.
I've seen several different options for how siding should be done such as:
Tar paper.
Foam board.
more tar paper.
and then Siding.

or:
Only Tyvek
Followed by siding.

The TV show "This Old House" used both tar paper and Tyvek on two different projects.

Any guidance, ideas, or stories of your siding projects would be appreciated.
 
#2 ·
In a couple of weeks, I'm going to start residing my house using Hardiplank siding.
Currently, the house has vinyl siding over 1" of foam and then the original cedar shingles.
The sheathing is T&G planks.
I've seen several different options for how siding should be done such as:
Tar paper.
Foam board.
more tar paper.
and then Siding.
or:
Only Tyvek
Followed by siding.
Tyvek
The TV show "This Old House" used both tar paper and Tyvek on two different projects.
Any guidance, ideas, or stories of your siding projects would be appreciated.

I would advise Housewrap with siding installed over it. If you use the Hardie board planking, use the plastic clips made for installing it.

Here is a quote on roofing felt (Tarpaper) vs. Housewrap:

Many builders do not install a drainage plane at all. The builders who do often install "building paper," a sheet of asphalt-impregnated felt paper, to protect the house from exterior water penetration. Unlike house wrap, however, building paper doesn't effectively reduce air infiltration because it has many seams, while house wrap is a continuous sheet with minimal overlaps. House wrap produces a breathable, weather-resistant barrier that will reduce energy costs and prevent wind-driven rain from entering the walls of a home.

This is from this link:

http://www.hgtvpro.com/hpro/bp_exterior_finishes/article/0,2617,HPRO_20149_3463274,00.html

Remember that house wrap allows moist damp air to 'breath' and escape, while providing a barrier from water infiltration. Roofing felt, does not 'breath'. Essentially, Housewrap is a 'gortex' for homes.

Here are some more information links to review:

http://www.fema.gov/pdf/rebuild/mat/fema499/hgcc_fact23.pdf

http://www.buildernewsmag.com/viewnews.pl?id=21
 
#8 ·
I would advise Housewrap with siding installed over it. If you use the Hardie board planking, use the plastic clips made for installing it.

Here is a quote on roofing felt (Tarpaper) vs. Housewrap:

Many builders do not install a drainage plane at all. The builders who do often install "building paper," a sheet of asphalt-impregnated felt paper, to protect the house from exterior water penetration. Unlike house wrap, however, building paper doesn't effectively reduce air infiltration because it has many seams, while house wrap is a continuous sheet with minimal overlaps. House wrap produces a breathable, weather-resistant barrier that will reduce energy costs and prevent wind-driven rain from entering the walls of a home.

This is from this link:

http://www.hgtvpro.com/hpro/bp_exterior_finishes/article/0,2617,HPRO_20149_3463274,00.html

Remember that house wrap allows moist damp air to 'breath' and escape, while providing a barrier from water infiltration. Roofing felt, does not 'breath'. Essentially, Housewrap is a 'gortex' for homes.

Here are some more information links to review:

http://www.fema.gov/pdf/rebuild/mat/fema499/hgcc_fact23.pdf

http://www.buildernewsmag.com/viewnews.pl?id=21http://www.buildernewsmag.com/viewnews.pl?id=21
I disagree felt paper is not a vapor barrier, air barrier or water barrier, it is only water resistant. Felt has a varying perm from 5 when dry to up over 60 when the relative humidity increases. Most vapor barriers are less than 1 perm. Also keep in mind if you want to take advantage of the building wrap as an air barrier it has to be taped including all the staple holes and when you tape the wrap you will trap any moisture which may enter behind the wrap. Im a felt kinda guy myself when it comes to walls but wraps are a good product if used correctly.

If your using some sort of exterior gypsum wall board (ie. Dens Glass Gold) I would go with the wrap and not tape it. If your using wood sheathing, go with felt. The felt will soak up any moisture that gets back there instead of the sheathing. The wrap is more prone to having the sheathing soak up any water in the wall as the wrap wont soak anything up. Just my opinion, everyone has one
 
#3 ·
Thanks, it sounds like the Tyvek type housewrap is the easy way to do this too.
How beneficial is foamboard? Would putting the foam over the sheathing followed by housewrap and then siding work? I'm thinking maybe the foam would trap moisture. What are your thoughts?
TIA
 
#4 ·
.....How beneficial is foamboard? Would putting the foam over the sheathing followed by housewrap and then siding work? I'm thinking maybe the foam would trap moisture. What are your thoughts?
TIA
Foam board would not trap moisture as it is not a rated moisture barrier. (It is usually installed in such a way as to allow air to pass thru at it's edges)

The benefit of the foam is to gain R-value in the home's walls and heat envelope. If you are at R-19 or greater in your walls, then there would be no significant reason to 'over-kill' using the foam board, in addition.

Exterior 1/2" Sheathing-
Foam board Information:

http://www.ebuild.com/products/prod...board/catCode.106/productId.368139/pageNum.10


Just in case you don't have the information already:
(Hardie Board Lap siding installation guide)

http://www.hardie.com/homeowner/installation/hardiplank_installation.php
 
#5 ·
A couple architect friends of mine are very keen on any "envelope" insulation (like foam-board) because it is much more effective in the real world than fiberglass insulation. They say fiberglass is hard to install perfectly, and after settling and thermal bridging (studs) are taken into account the performance is much lower than what is rated. Foam board on the other hand has no thermal bridging at all, and doesn't lose performance over time.

Personally, I'd add foam when residing. In our climate, and with energy prices as they are, I think insulation is nearly always money well spent.
 
#9 ·
A couple architect friends of mine are very keen on any "envelope" insulation (like foam-board) because it is much more effective in the real world than fiberglass insulation. They say fiberglass is hard to install perfectly, and after settling and thermal bridging (studs) are taken into account the performance is much lower than what is rated. Foam board on the other hand has no thermal bridging at all, and doesn't lose performance over time.

Personally, I'd add foam when residing. In our climate, and with energy prices as they are, I think insulation is nearly always money well spent.
Thats not entirely true, rigid insulation R-Values are based on LTTR values. Long Term Thermal Resistance, because there is some degredation of the r value over time.
 
#6 ·
Our house was built in 1925 with 2x4 construction. We are doing the inside of the house too and going from whatever insulating board they used on the underside of the vinyl to R13 fiberglas in the cavities. The 1/2" foam-board will give us an extra R-3.
What side of the house wrap does the foam-board go on? Are there any issues hanging siding through the foam other than using a longer nail? Would the siding eventually sag because it essentially is being suspended out from the wall?

We're replacing all the windows with new constuction. If you use 1/2" foamboard, I'm guessing you need to put an extra 1/2" of plywood around the windows so that you have someplace to nail the trim into and also to move the windows out an extra 1/2" to compensate for the foam. Does that sound correct?

thanks
 
#7 ·
.....What side of the house wrap does the foam-board go on?
House wrap goes over the home's sheathing, foam then goes over that.

Are there any issues hanging siding through the foam other than using a longer nail?
Should be none.

Would the siding eventually sag because it essentially is being suspended out from the wall?
No. Just make sure that you use the appropriate fasteners. If you are in doubt, do what contractors do, contact the manufacturer directly and ask them.

We're replacing all the windows with new constuction. If you use 1/2" foamboard, I'm guessing you need to put an extra 1/2" of plywood around the windows so that you have someplace to nail the trim into and also to move the windows out an extra 1/2" to compensate for the foam. Does that sound correct?
That depends on what you are siding with, the type of windows, etc...

Personally, I would not use foam when installing Lap siding of any kind, as that changes the way EVERYTHING is installed, from the corner boards, roof trim boards, down to the window casings.....
 
#12 · (Edited)
This is the statement (That is referenced) from the source I cited in my original post:

"Many builders do not install a drainage plane at all. The builders who do often install "building paper," a sheet of asphalt-impregnated felt paper, to protect the house from exterior water penetration. Unlike house wrap, however, building paper doesn't effectively reduce air infiltration because it has many seams, while house wrap is a continuous sheet with minimal overlaps. House wrap produces a breathable, weather-resistant barrier that will reduce energy costs and prevent wind-driven rain from entering the walls of a home."


That quote basically translates to (layman's terms):

......"There are some builders out there, that install 'roofing felt' based on their belief that it will protect the house from water or moisture.
However, roofing felt installed in this way is a poor vapor barrier, because it does not provide a continuous layer of protection. However, house wrap, even with 'some' overlapping, does provide that and more.
It allows moist air to pass thru, while acting as a water and moisture (weather-resistant) barrier."
 
#16 ·
There are a few different thoughts on using tyvek, one is try blowing air through it and see how well it "actually" breathes, then try it with water from the inside to see how well it "actually" lets moisture escape (not!) The priciple behind housewrap is okay in theory but in reality doesn't work. Your house was built almost 90 years ago with no wrap whatsoever and look at the boards no or very little rot. If it had tyvek over it I could almost guarantee it would be rotten. Unless you make your inside vapour barrier as perfectly air tight as possible you will end up with condensation forming inside your walls with no escape. When I first started building it was the rage now engeneering firms recommend against it as it is the worst thing to do for your house in this area. If your interior vapour barrier is properly done, once the wall cavity equalizes with the atmospheric pressure no water vapour can be blown in as there is no place to blow to. If you don't have a good vapour barrier I believe your better off with building paper and let your house breath.
 
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