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Old 08-07-2011, 08:38 PM   #1
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Hanging / Mounting a 6' x 3-1/2' 250lb water wall?


Hi, I made a large water wall, its 6' long and 3 1/2' tall. The background is slate tiles so its very heavy, with wood, water, rocks and tiles its about 250-300 lbs.

Now I'm going to mount it, I've decided what to do and think its will hold but would love to have the some opinions from people who have hung heavy objects, this is the heaviest thing I've mounted.

The water wall is about 2" thick on the top 3 feet and the bottom 6" is out 6", its like a large picture with a flower bed at the bottom.

I attached 4 - 10" long, 1" wide, 1/8" thick, steel plates to the back of the water wall which are counter set in the wood so there flush to the back. Each bracket is 16" apart to line up with the studs which have been verified. Each bracket is attached to the water wall with 5 screws, 4 are 3/4" screws and the top screw is 2" long. Each bracket sticks above the water wall by 1" and have 1 hole remaining for mounting on the wall. The holes are for 1/4" screws or bolts max.

So now I have 4 mounting points to the wall, each bracket with one screw and each hitting a stud.

What I would love to do is get those screws that have no head and a wing nut can be put on. I was thinking 3 1/2" long, 1/4" thick, I would leave 1/2" sticking out of the wall so I have room for the wing nut and lock washer.

So do you think 4 - 3 1/2" long, 1/4 thick screws without heads will hold the 250lbs safely?

The reason I want the wing nuts is to make mounting easier. This way I can put the 4 screws in the wall and then me and a friend can pick up the water wall and line up the brackets with the headless screws.

It would be quite hard getting it in place and ratcheting lag bolts in. Do you think lag bolts would be stronger?

Thanks

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Old 08-07-2011, 08:54 PM   #2
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Hanging / Mounting a 6' x 3-1/2' 250lb water wall?


Don't know for sure, but that sounds like alot of shear force on (4) 1/4" bolts...

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Old 08-07-2011, 09:07 PM   #3
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Hanging / Mounting a 6' x 3-1/2' 250lb water wall?


4 1/4" screws will hold that just fine----an engeneer will be along soon enough with the sheer strength.

Sounds like your plan will work,to me.

a suggestion---use a scrap of wood as a template so the holes are located exactly.

Drill a deep pilot hole so the screws are sticking straight out--

And come back with a picture!
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Old 08-07-2011, 09:56 PM   #4
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Hanging / Mounting a 6' x 3-1/2' 250lb water wall?


[quote=robsworld78;702568] its about 250-300 lbs.

Now I'm going to mount it, I've decided what to do and think its will hold but would love to have the some opinions from people who have hung heavy objects, this is the heaviest thing I've mounted.

i've mounted heavier things than that back in the day. you should be fine.
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Old 08-10-2011, 03:56 PM   #5
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Hanging / Mounting a 6' x 3-1/2' 250lb water wall?


Thanks for the replies, its 3 - 1 counting me, cause I think it will work too. Other DIYer's please feel free to leave your 2 cents as well.

Reason I think it'll be fine is because its just weight hanging, not like a shelf that's pulling on the screws. If I was hanging a shelf that held 250lbs I would use more then 4 screws but I believe this is a different kind of weight, does anyone agree?
Quote:
a suggestion---use a scrap of wood as a template so the holes are located exactly.

Drill a deep pilot hole so the screws are sticking straight out--
Exactly what I was thinking, I'll use the template for leveling as well. I was going to do a pilot hole for the screws but I was thinking having the screw angle slightly upwards, you think perfectly straight is better though?

I'll be sure to post a pic once I'm done, I know I said I'm ready to hang but in reality not even close. I would post a pic now to show the brackets but no camera at the moment, if I get one before I hang it I'll post it. It should be hung in about a week or 2, depending on what comes up.
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Old 08-10-2011, 04:53 PM   #6
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Hanging / Mounting a 6' x 3-1/2' 250lb water wall?


I'd run them in straight---tightening nuts on an angled screw will bend it.
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Old 08-10-2011, 05:03 PM   #7
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Hanging / Mounting a 6' x 3-1/2' 250lb water wall?


Well, I got curious since out voted and found this site: http://dodgeram.org/tech/specs/bolts..._strength.html

says a 1/4" grade-2 iron bolt has a shear loading of 200lbs. So (4) with equal distribution should, in theory, hold 800lbs.

That is, of course, if the imbedment is properly obtained to allow the bolt the loading characteristics. Without proper embedment the bolt may just pull out.
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Old 08-14-2011, 02:10 AM   #8
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Hanging / Mounting a 6' x 3-1/2' 250lb water wall?


Thanks for doing the research, guess I'll see what happens. Makes sense to keep the screws straight as you mentioned. I'll let you know when I get it up.
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Old 08-17-2011, 03:21 PM   #9
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Hanging / Mounting a 6' x 3-1/2' 250lb water wall?


Quote:
Originally Posted by AGWhitehouse View Post
Well, I got curious since out voted and found this site: http://dodgeram.org/tech/specs/bolts..._strength.html

says a 1/4" grade-2 iron bolt has a shear loading of 200lbs. So (4) with equal distribution should, in theory, hold 800lbs.
That chart says 200 lbs is a "safe load" which leaves me to believe that a safety factor has been applied and that the "ultimate load" is probably 2-4 times more. I know 1/4" toggle bolts are usually listed as having 200-300 ulitmate shear ratings in drywall ( depending on thickness of drywall)

You should be fine
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Old 08-17-2011, 07:30 PM   #10
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Hanging / Mounting a 6' x 3-1/2' 250lb water wall?


Bolt sheer strength is not cumulative.
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Old 08-18-2011, 12:41 PM   #11
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Hanging / Mounting a 6' x 3-1/2' 250lb water wall?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Master of Cold View Post
Bolt sheer strength is not cumulative.
Are you saying (4) 200lb. sheer bolts won't hold 800lbs. if equally loaded?

I believe they will. Much like carrying something heavy. The more people you have holding it, the less weight each person has to hold. Unequal distribution of loads is a whole different scenario though...
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Old 08-18-2011, 10:39 PM   #12
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Hanging / Mounting a 6' x 3-1/2' 250lb water wall?


You shouldn't be designing around sheer strength. You have to use yield strength. The size of the material, and where the bolts are located (shear planes) are just as important. Just because 4 bolts mathematicaly hold the load doesn't mean they will hold the load.

To the op..did you mount those plates with drywall screws?
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Old 08-18-2011, 11:02 PM   #13
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Hanging / Mounting a 6' x 3-1/2' 250lb water wall?


You can also mount a wooden ledge under your water fall so it can rest on while you bolt everything in place. We have done this in the past and it will also help in distributing the load.
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Old 08-19-2011, 09:59 AM   #14
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Hanging / Mounting a 6' x 3-1/2' 250lb water wall?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Master of Cold View Post
You shouldn't be designing around sheer strength. You have to use yield strength. The size of the material, and where the bolts are located (shear planes) are just as important. Just because 4 bolts mathematicaly hold the load doesn't mean they will hold the load.
That's why I said earlier it all depends on the embedment...

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