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Old 03-24-2010, 04:31 PM   #1
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getting ready to frame my first walls..advice?


I'm going to be doing my first framing job (transforming a nook into a closet).

The dimensions that I measured are 45" width, 41.75" length, and 83" height.

I was thinking of putting in a 24 inch door.

My intention is for the two walls I'm framing, to be non-load bearing (of course). I'm just not sure how to attach the walls to the ceiling joists, without the joists transferring a load. There are two ceiling joists running above where I want to frame the walls. The joists are 38" on center. They will be perpendicular to the 45" inch wall, that will hold the 24" door. The 41.75" wall will be parallel to one of the joists.

I read a few things. For the perpendicular wall, one is to nail a 2x4 to the bottom of the joists, then attach the stud wall to that.

I've also read that a header for a non-load bearing wall, can be a simple 2x4. Is this true? Reason I'm hoping so, is that after using a 2x4 nailer, and a 2x4 flat header, I'm already down 3 inches of headroom: I'd have about 2 inches to spare for the door's rough opening.

As for teh wall parallel to the floor joist, what would be the best method of attaching it? I've read that nailing the top plate to the bottom of the joist works.

I guess my thinking is, if the wall is attached to a floor joist, then it will end up transferring some kind of load. I just don't want this to happen, because the ceiling joists are the ran the same way as the floor joists: that one span up top is 38" OC, and the floor joists are the same way under there (they are, however, very solid).

I need to make drawings I guess to give a better idea, perhaps. Who knows.

Lemme know. Thanks.
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Old 03-24-2010, 05:18 PM   #2
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getting ready to frame my first walls..advice?


Hi, Sounds like something you can do.

As to the header---a 2x4 will do fine--you have a mighty low ceiling in that spot.
I think,if I were building that wall--I'd leave out the header and cripples until the wall was built and secured to the ceiling.

If you do it that way you can screw the top plate through the drywall(the original area is dry walled still?) and into the joists.

No need to nail that extra piece to the ceiling first.--It's a pain to install a 2x4 to the ceiling first.

If that wall is nice and strong--the side wall will be easy enough to secure to the floor--new wall and old wall. Ceiling too if there is any thing to nail(or screw) to.

With a ceiling height as low as you have there--you will probably have a thin header--and a shortened door. Make sure the header is wide enough to fit your trim.

Have fun--Mike--
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Old 03-24-2010, 07:06 PM   #3
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getting ready to frame my first walls..advice?


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Hi, Sounds like something you can do.

As to the header---a 2x4 will do fine--you have a mighty low ceiling in that spot.
I think,if I were building that wall--I'd leave out the header and cripples until the wall was built and secured to the ceiling.

If you do it that way you can screw the top plate through the drywall(the original area is dry walled still?) and into the joists.

No need to nail that extra piece to the ceiling first.--It's a pain to install a 2x4 to the ceiling first.

If that wall is nice and strong--the side wall will be easy enough to secure to the floor--new wall and old wall. Ceiling too if there is any thing to nail(or screw) to.

With a ceiling height as low as you have there--you will probably have a thin header--and a shortened door. Make sure the header is wide enough to fit your trim.

Have fun--Mike--
So securing it to the floor is the only true requirement for anchoring the wall then?

If I don't use a 2x4 nailer for the wide wall, then that means it'd only be attached at the corners (where the ceiling joists are). Is it acceptable to leave a small gap between the ceiling joist and the top plate, so that the joists will bear 0 load on the walls?
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Old 03-24-2010, 07:20 PM   #4
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getting ready to frame my first walls..advice?


You will want to screw the wall into the joists over head.
The wall should be a bit shorter than the opening--1/4--3/8 is fine-- this is a partition not a bearing wall.

As long as the finished structure is strong enough to take the doors little bit of stress that gap at the top doesn't matter a bit.
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Old 03-24-2010, 07:30 PM   #5
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getting ready to frame my first walls..advice?


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Originally Posted by oh'mike View Post
You will want to screw the wall into the joists over head.
The wall should be a bit shorter than the opening--1/4--3/8 is fine-- this is a partition not a bearing wall.

As long as the finished structure is strong enough to take the doors little bit of stress that gap at the top doesn't matter a bit.
Wouldn't the joists transfer load through the screws, or s that incorrect?

If I could leave a gap that'd be nice. The floor isn't exactly level and will be jacked up sometime (drops about 1/4") so having some wiggle room would be great.
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Old 03-24-2010, 07:32 PM   #6
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getting ready to frame my first walls..advice?


I reread your post---Yes -attaching the new partition to the existing walls at the top and bottom will work fine. It is unlikely that you will be lucky enough to have your new wall line up with a stud in the old wall.

If you are concerned with the stud that is up against the drywall on the existing wall--just add an extra stud after the wall is up.

Remember the drywall will stiffen up the structure.--Mike---

I assumed that you are hand nailing this--that is why I mentioned using screws for the final fastening into the old structure.--More control--easier to remove if you have a problem.
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Old 03-24-2010, 07:36 PM   #7
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getting ready to frame my first walls..advice?


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Originally Posted by oh'mike View Post
I reread your post---Yes -attaching the new partition to the existing walls at the top and bottom will work fine. It is unlikely that you will be lucky enough to have your new wall line up with a stud in the old wall.

If you are concerned with the stud that is up against the drywall on the existing wall--just add an extra stud after the wall is up.

Remember the drywall will stiffen up the structure.--Mike---

I assumed that you are hand nailing this--that is why I mentioned using screws for the final fastening into the old structure.--More control--easier to remove if you have a problem.
Nah, the two walls I'm putting up won't be up against any old walls. The ceiling joists are exposed...tell you what, let me take a pic. Hold on a second.
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Old 03-24-2010, 07:37 PM   #8
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getting ready to frame my first walls..advice?


Not to worry --the screws will have plenty of 'give' if the house moves.

When I build a basement -I always leave about 1/2 gap--two nails into each joist--never had a call back for cracking drywall---I keep in touch with my customers--I'd know if this was a bad idea.
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Old 03-24-2010, 07:42 PM   #9
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getting ready to frame my first walls..advice?


Ok, I am terrible at drawing on the computer lol.

The red lines are the studs and top plates. The green is the rough opening. There's two 3 old studs on the left you see, that are nailed to the side of that ceiling joist: those will be coming off once I start. Just ignore them for now...



If this picture is even more confusing, please forgive me. This is a terrible drawing.
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Old 03-24-2010, 07:53 PM   #10
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getting ready to frame my first walls..advice?


Pretty much every thing I said still stands--Using your own common sense and logic---This is a partition--it's not holding up anything other than a small door and drywall.

Those old studs and joists are going to be hard as rock--you may snap off a screw or two--be patient.

The drawing looks like my old etch-a-sketch --I'm a complete blunder with computers----Mike--
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Old 03-24-2010, 07:59 PM   #11
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getting ready to frame my first walls..advice?


Lol ok. So simply screwing the top plate of the new walls, to the ceiling joists above, won't make them load bearing or anything. As long as that's the case, then yay

Thanks.

P.S., have you ever seen 2x4s packed in the backseat and trunk of a car? Trying to figure out if I can get 20 of those things in there. If my measuring tape's correct, I have 81 inches of space, which would leave a foot of wood sticking out of the bungee-corded trunk :P
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Old 03-24-2010, 08:34 PM   #12
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getting ready to frame my first walls..advice?


New closets are at least 22-24" deep for the coats on the hangers...... With your door placement as is--- do you have that? Remember to move the supply register out into the room if forced-air and below the window..... Window in a closet leads to mold and mildew unless air-tight.

The joists run perpendicular to the stairs, correct? Since the ceiling is painted a different color in the nook, was there another wall removed running the same as the new door wall, but out of the picture, that is bearing?

Be safe, Gary
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Old 03-24-2010, 08:41 PM   #13
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getting ready to frame my first walls..advice?


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New closets are at least 22-24" deep for the coats on the hangers...... With your door placement as is--- do you have that? Remember to move the supply register out into the room if forced-air and below the window..... Window in a closet leads to mold and mildew unless air-tight.

The joists run perpendicular to the stairs, correct? Since the ceiling is painted a different color in the nook, was there another wall removed running the same as the new door wall, but out of the picture, that is bearing?

Be safe, Gary

No air ducts where the closet will be. It's going to be 41.75 inches deep, and will also house my dirtspace access.

Yes, the joists run perpendicular. I guess you recall my other threads about the a wall that has studs that are not under the joists. That's the wall that's running perpendicular, and that is to the right of what you see in the picture.

I'm also not sure if you recall the thread I made a few months ago:

how to determine if wall is load bearing

See those studs in the picture I posted in this thread? That's all that's remaining of that wall, and they're just studs nailed to the side of the ceiling joists.

The nook actually still has some drywall up on the ceiling: it's coming down though when I do this.

And yes, that lamp is still in the exact same spot, from that thread, and in this pic.
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Old 03-25-2010, 06:01 PM   #14
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getting ready to frame my first walls..advice?


I went and bought the lumber. Spent half an hour trying to find 22 pieces of halfway decen tlumber at lowes. I still had to take a couple of crowned pieces >_>

in any case, I've started. Nailing a 16d nail by hand is a lot of work!
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Old 03-25-2010, 06:20 PM   #15
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getting ready to frame my first walls..advice?


Practice --practice--Nail guns are a new invention--My right wrist still clicks when I turn it--swinging a 22 oz. framing hammer has left it mark!

I haven't hand driven nails in years---Got kind of spoiled.--Mike--
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