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Old 10-11-2010, 05:03 PM   #16
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Getting around building codes; shotcrete; LOW cost


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can you link a couple videos where people were crazy enough to try shotcrete DIY?. I gave up after about the first 100 videos.







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Old 10-11-2010, 05:20 PM   #17
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how about some doing actual shotcrete and something concerning structural use.

Everything you linked are simply coatings; papercrete; plaster; Those are not structural products.
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Old 10-11-2010, 05:22 PM   #18
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Getting around building codes; shotcrete; LOW cost


So, as I undestand it, you want to build a garage, but in order to get the code officer to let you build a garage you have to first build a house. Therefore, because you are so cash-strapped, you plan to build a house that you don't really need (since what you really want to build is a garage), and to build that house you want to use an atypical technique, one that the code officer is likely not very familiar with, because in some unexplained way, you think that will save you money over building the house that you don't need in a conventional manner.

QUESTION: Is your end goal a garage, and is this debate about building houses using shotcrete techniques really a stepping stone to achieving the goal of having that garage?
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Old 10-11-2010, 05:27 PM   #19
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Getting around building codes; shotcrete; LOW cost


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Originally Posted by nap View Post
can you link a couple videos where people were crazy enough to try shotcrete DIY?. I gave up after about the first 100 videos.






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Old 10-11-2010, 05:31 PM   #20
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Getting around building codes; shotcrete; LOW cost


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Originally Posted by nap View Post
how about some doing actual shotcrete and something concerning structural use.

Everything you linked are simply coatings; papercrete; plaster; Those are not structural products.
All you have done is shoot down my plans.
You asked for "a couple" videos, and I started off with 4.
Its not rocket science. You should be able to find this stuff on Youtube yourself, and you should be able to figure it out for yourself.

Stop with the negative attitude and expectations.
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Old 10-11-2010, 05:45 PM   #21
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Getting around building codes; shotcrete; LOW cost


Quote:
Originally Posted by steveel View Post
So, as I undestand it, you want to build a garage, but in order to get the code officer to let you build a garage you have to first build a house. Therefore, because you are so cash-strapped, you plan to build a house that you don't really need (since what you really want to build is a garage), and to build that house you want to use an atypical technique, one that the code officer is likely not very familiar with, because in some unexplained way, you think that will save you money over building the house that you don't need in a conventional manner.

QUESTION: Is your end goal a garage, and is this debate about building houses using shotcrete techniques really a stepping stone to achieving the goal of having that garage?

#1: My plans have to do with everything BUT a house.
Eventually, I will build one. But first, at the very least, I need to be able to securely store and lock-up tools, materials, etc - which requires some sort of building.
But Code folks want me to either build a house in one day? or commute over an hour between location and nearest source of resources or town of any real size?
In order to build a house, I need to first store the materials, tools, etc needed to build it, as I could not haul everything back and forth every time I work.

#2: For what I intend, or would prefer to build, Shotcrete is absolutely ideal in just about every way.

I am not trying to be some chronic non-conformist, I am choosing the best design, method and materials to achieve the necessary and desired results.
I have many times found ruins of old/ancient homes in distant areas, and all that remained of them was what was made of concrete and stone masonry.
The last thing I want to build with is wood, except for rare situations where it might actually be best somehow.
Shotcrete is simply the best construction for what I want to do. Whether it is a wall, a structure, a pool, etc.
It is in fact no expensive, fairly simple, extremely strong, extremely long lasting, etc etc etc.

If the code kings don't like it, or what I want to do, then they are the problem, not me and my free choice;
thus, I have to anticipate the problems, and find ways around them.
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Old 10-11-2010, 06:06 PM   #22
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Getting around building codes; shotcrete; LOW cost


Quote:
Originally Posted by shotcreteman View Post
All you have done is shoot down my plans.
You asked for "a couple" videos, and I started off with 4.
Its not rocket science. You should be able to find this stuff on Youtube yourself, and you should be able to figure it out for yourself.

Stop with the negative attitude and expectations.
no, I have given you constructive criticism and facts. None of your 4 videos are using shotcrete. I wanted you to find them to make a point; I don't think there are any and that is because you do not apply shotcrete like that. Shotcrete is sprayed concrete. Papercrete and whatever the mexicans were applying (plaster I think) is much lighter and thinner than concrete.


but hey, you didn't come here for advice I guess.

enjoy. I'm outta here.
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Old 10-11-2010, 06:35 PM   #23
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me too

Last edited by steveel; 10-11-2010 at 07:59 PM.
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Old 10-11-2010, 08:53 PM   #24
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I said it from the start the guy was a waste of time. He thinks he's so smart let him figure it out on his own.
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Old 10-14-2010, 09:59 PM   #25
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Getting around building codes; shotcrete; LOW cost


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I said it from the start the guy was a waste of time. He thinks he's so smart let him figure it out on his own.
For the record, I AM figuring 90% of it out for myself.
I am doing things that fewif any people have tried before. That means it is not going to be in a handy reference book.
You automatically assume someone to be an idiot, just because they are not seeing and doing like YOU think they should.
You have absolutely no idea whatsoever what I am trying to do - and it wouldn't make any difference, because YOU are the one who is so full of yourself, and wouldn't be satisfied with any way I explained myself, or with whatever I wanted to do, if it does not fit into your pin-hole view of things - Don't post on anything I write anymore if you can't be either positive, helpful, or at least neutral. You are now on my ignore list Sherlock.
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Old 10-14-2010, 10:07 PM   #26
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See post below.

Last edited by shotcreteman; 10-14-2010 at 10:21 PM. Reason: Forum Confusion
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Old 10-14-2010, 10:13 PM   #27
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Getting around building codes; shotcrete; LOW cost


It is 100% possible to post a helpful, intelligent, or at least neutral response to this post.
There were a couple of people who gave me just what I really needed, and I expressed my appreciation.
One person didn't seem to get where I was going, and asked a question - I don't mind answering a question, and I did so within the limits of time. space, and not providing full blueprints and explanation of what would be evolving into a very large project.

To dismiss someone either because you don't understand what they are trying to do; or because they are not doing what you think they should be doing, or how you think they should be doing it, it contrary to the very purpose of this forum. People come here for help, ideas and constructive criticism. People are often confused about what constructive criticism is, and thus, should probably not engage in it.

However, if someone is going to start right off by calling someone names like some heady adolescent; being abusive, treating someone like some kind of an idiot for doing things differently because they HAVE to be done differently, I will not tolerate such garbage.
If people think they are extremely competent and experienced, they should also be able to easily demonstrate it in a helpful, positive, or at least neutral way. If they can't, then well, either they aren't the hot-shots they think they are, or they are just developmentally "challenged" and should not participate in a civilized forum.

Last edited by shotcreteman; 10-14-2010 at 10:30 PM. Reason: Clarifying
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Old 10-15-2010, 04:20 PM   #28
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Getting around building codes; shotcrete; LOW cost


Quote:
Originally Posted by shotcreteman View Post
#1: My plans have to do with everything BUT a house.

Eventually, I will build one. But first, at the very least, I need to be able to securely store and lock-up tools, materials, etc - which requires some sort of building.
But Code folks want me to either build a house in one day? or commute over an hour between location and nearest source of resources or town of any real size?
In order to build a house, I need to first store the materials, tools, etc needed to build it, as I could not haul everything back and forth every time I work.

#2: For what I intend, or would prefer to build, Shotcrete is absolutely ideal in just about every way.

I am not trying to be some chronic non-conformist, I am choosing the best design, method and materials to achieve the necessary and desired results.
I have many times found ruins of old/ancient homes in distant areas, and all that remained of them was what was made of concrete and stone masonry.
The last thing I want to build with is wood, except for rare situations where it might actually be best somehow.
Shotcrete is simply the best construction for what I want to do. Whether it is a wall, a structure, a pool, etc.
It is in fact no expensive, fairly simple, extremely strong, extremely long lasting, etc etc etc.

If the code kings don't like it, or what I want to do, then they are the problem, not me and my free choice;
thus, I have to anticipate the problems, and find ways around them
.
You are a joke and want to get away with doing what you want to do and not follow code.Title of the thread explains you well. Just do what you want because you think who you are for some strange reason. Hopefully they will nail your ignorant butt and make you rip it down. You will deserve what you get.
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Old 10-15-2010, 05:40 PM   #29
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Getting around building codes; shotcrete; LOW cost


On a more positive note. The building code is typically prescriptive, meaning that if you do it the way the code says, you are presumed to be working safely, and you will get your permit. However, it is perfectly legal to build using any technique you want, so long as you conform to the rules set forth in the building code for varying from the prescriptive code.

Simply put, if you want to build in a different manner, you get an engineer or architect to prepare the plans, stamp them, and you show them to the building inspector. This could be as simple as wanting to use screws instead of nails (nail sizing and spacing are listed in the building code, screw sizes and spacing are not), or could be as complex as wanting to use Shotcrete for a house rather than wood, brick, concrete, or other more common materials. You get an engineer or architect to do the design, you show it to the building inspector, you pay your permit fee, and you build. Legal, relatively painless. It helps if you have an engineer or architect friend to design the project at a reasonable cost, else you have to pay market rate for the design service.

This is not "going around code", it is totally within code. Essentially anything can be varied provided you have the right professional stamp on the documents. As for building with shotcrete, if you have the gun and the knowledge, go for it. I have worked on numerous industrial jobs done with shotcrete, typically the gun and the compressor is expensive, so I am a little surprised you can save a lot of money this way, but if you have the gun and the mixer, the rest is labor.

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