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Garage Part Deux

5K views 26 replies 6 participants last post by  EvilBetty 
#1 ·
Flat work and concrete are complete.





I need to start framing this in and could use some advise.

I was going to run a vapor barrier under the bottom plates secure them with lag bolts and lag shields. Install the top plates and then install studs every 16" starting from the center post.

For the front, I (or someone else :laughing:) will be installing a 7x8 garage door. I've been following these and other instructions to figure out how to frame out the garage door side. http://www.ehow.com/how_5007864_frame-garage-door.html

First off, any concern with those instructions?

Do I need to have the exact dimensions of the garage door I'll be buying before framing this in? Or is knowing you want a 7'x8' door enough?

There is a 6"x6" post about a foot from the basement wall. I was going to start there, and install 2, 7' 1 1/2" 2x4's on the inside of that post to support the 2x12.

That's going to leave a weird gap above the 2x12, (see pic below) how best to deal with that?

Is it just one 2"x12"? I've seen it with 2 sandwiching a piece of plywood before.

Then measure over to find out where to start the left side of the door framing, frame in, and install 2 more 7' 1 1/2" 2x4's on the inside. and finish off with 2"x6"'s on the top and sides.

The 2x6's protrude out to the driveway?

Any other corrections or tips appreciated.

 
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#2 ·
Betty,
not sure on the way you are going about it. But overhead garage door openings are normally rough framed to the size of the door, in your case 7' x 8'. This is the 'rough opening'. When you add your finish jambs and vinyl weatherstrips, they will overlap the door and provide your weatherseal. Your 2 x 12 header for the door should be two with a 1/2" cdx or osb in the middle, glued and nailed. Where is this being built? Just curious on the foundation requirements. Around here, besides having a footer at least 42"k deep, anchor bolts are required and the bottom plate cannot sit right on the slab, unless the slab was somehow 8" above finish grade.
Mike Hawkins:)
 
#3 ·
Mike is spot on with the foundation, you are destined for water problems/rot with your framing and siding. Your wood posts should be on metal bases, or are they there and my eyes are tired? Is the slab pitched toward the opening to drain any gasoline leaks? Where is the 2" curb as drawn to deflect the water run-off from the sloped slab? Did you pin the slab to the house with re-bar? Will you be filling-in the window? No permit, right?

Gary
 
#5 ·
I tried to talk the guy out of putting the the posts in the footing but he was insistent it was fine to do it this way. The deck guys I've had out quoting were also framers and didn't seem to have a real big deal with the way it was done, but then again were going to put the deck posts on metal bases.




The 3 left side posts are 12' and all the way down in the solid footing. The footing was setup with rebar and the side of the house was drilled and rebared and the bad ties the two in.




The other two posts are set in the concrete of the pad.

The concrete does not step down like in the picture, but instead ramps down from the back of the front posts to front. The pad does drop 3" from the back toward the garage door opening. I'm trying to figure how to properly set plates here.

My entire lot slops down from this point but I'm not sure that alleviates the concern of water.



Other than tearing this all out and starting over, how can I properly frame this in?



:huh:
 
#8 ·
Betty,
was that room up above just built or has that been there? And if it has been there, what was holding it up? If I read your last post right, the treated posts are new and were recently set. If that's the case, why wouldn't you have built from the ground up instead of the other way around. In other words, build the garage and frame the room above as a second floor. It seems like this is all being done backwards.
I would think about having a bricklayer install a course of block around the three sides and provide a level top in order to set your plates (treated) on. It would also get you up at least 8" from the ground and protect your framing and siding.
Mike Hawkins:)
 
#9 ·
Permits in my city are not required for concrete so no plans, no permits yet.

The room above is existing. It is a sun room that was built in place of a deck for the original owner.

The original footing was sliding out threatening to take down the room so while replacing the footing I asked that it be done in a way that I could convert it into a garage for the riding mower and motorcycles. It's 12x12, any car I would own would not fit in there. :)

One of the guys that quoted wanted to put 4 foot concrete walls around the structure, jack up the room then lay the old posts right down on the new wall. That's the way I expected it to be done. But the time between with the guy I selected bid and the time he came out I guess was great enough that he forgot what I wanted done and didn't have any notes. When he showed up he hand dug down to the original footing and was about to set forms to come pour concrete the next day. When I caught him that evening and laid out again what I wanted done, this was the plan he came up with. His reasoning was all to save time and money and he seemed sure in his methods. Reduced number of pours, less days on site, etc...

In retrospect I should have paid him for his work that day and called someone else. But this what I've got now and would like to make it work.
 
#11 ·
It's not a room until it has walls. :no:

And watch it with the sweetheart crap, or I'll sick the wife on you. :laughing:

I completely plan to get permits before I do the walls and electrical, but I'm trying to set a plan of attack first.

I've read on this thread the posts in the footing is going to cause potential water problems. Is there any kind of flashing or other technique I can use to minimize this danger?

I was going to roll out insulation under my pressure treated sill plates, drill through and into the pad with a masonry bit, and anchor them with lag bolts, is this not the right way?

And for the real tricky bit, with the front edge sloping down to meed the driveway pad, how do I properly place those sill plates? My only guess was to sand the back down or shim up the front but both would put that sill plate in the path of running water.
 
#12 ·
Done is done......

"I've read on this thread the posts in the footing is going to cause potential water problems. Is there any kind of flashing or other technique I can use to minimize this danger?"---- too late to waterproof treat the treated (for bugs and growth, not water) as they are in the ground. The footings around them will wick water to the posts and rot them out. Keep all surface groundwater away, too late to insulate or ? for the sub-terrain water below. A poly sill sealer is essential to stop the treated plates from wicking water from below: http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com...ressure-treated-sill-plates-and-building-code

The CMU idea given earlier would be the best bet to lift the siding/framing wood up the required distance per minimum building code against water damage. Code requires 2" from a slab for wood protection due to splash, a very minimum.

Gary
 
#13 ·
Ah wow I somehow overlooked that last part of Mikes post.

I'll study up on adding the bricks / CMU, thanks.

And another fun find... looks like I only have 7' 6" from pad to ceiling joist. I'm going to have to go with a shorter door, or see if I can find a low headroom solution.
 
#14 ·
Ah wow I somehow overlooked that last part of Mikes post.

I'll study up on adding the bricks / CMU, thanks.

And another fun find... looks like I only have 7' 6" from pad to ceiling joist. I'm going to have to go with a shorter door, or see if I can find a low headroom solution.
Betty,
Here's a link for low headroom hardware for overhead doors that still let you use a torsion spring system and only needs about 6" of clearance.
http://www.diygaragerepair.com/Low-Headroom-Garage-Door-Parts-s/116.htm

Mike Hawkins:)
 
#15 ·
Or you could just double/triple up the end joists above. You will need a permit for the posts, garage, as they are structural changes effecting living space support.

Gary
 
#17 ·
Not sure what you mean about the joists.

After some better measurements, it's looking like I've got 7' 9" from floor to ceiling joist., 9'5" opening between the posts, and almost 4 9/16" of side room after sheet rock, on the right side, looking from the inside.

So if fitting a 9x7 door, after roughing in and accounting for sheet rock, I think I'll be left with about a 8" header.

I'm going to have to rough in with 2x6's to get the proper side room, because of where he sat these posts. Meaning I guess I'd have to finish with 2x8's I guess.

Building the jam with 2x6's, do I still build the header with (2) 2x8's and fill the 2.5" of middle space with OSB?
 
#19 ·
You really need to contact your local building department now, before any work is continued. You are digging yourself in a hole and it's getting deeper. Ask them about adding to the running rim joist which should have been doubled/tripled to carry the hip roof and snow loads. They will have the answers and work with you on this. Better late than never.....

Gary
 
#20 ·
You really need to contact your local building department now, before any work is continued. You are digging yourself in a hole and it's getting deeper. Ask them about adding to the running rim joist which should have been doubled/tripled to carry the hip roof and snow loads. They will have the answers and work with you on this. Better late than never.....

Gary
Gary,
I whole heartedly agree with what you are saying. I just hope her building department has some personnel whom are knowledgabe and willing to help. After dealing with a number of different building departments over the years, most in my area weren't much help in telling you what they wanted. Betty, if your building department isn't able to help, it would be worth your while to consult with an architect to sort out the details and get some plans that are up to snuff. It pays sometimes to spend a little bit of money up front. Much cheaper than having to tear things apart and redo.
Mike Hawkins:)
 
#21 ·
The grand plan here is to turn the underneath of the existing sun room into a garage for the motorcycles, and attach a deck on to the sun room.

I went to the city. They came out and looked at what I was doing asked questions on the footings and such. I got a call back a few days later that everything was fine and I was good to go. I just needed to bring in a plan showing dimensions and apply for a permit.

I came in filled everything out and was then handed a copy of the original building plot and told to draw in where the deck was going to go. I did so then handed back. Building inspector takes one look at it and says, "you can't do that".

There is a SS easement (Sanitation Sewer / Storm Sewer they don't know yet) 15' wide running behind my house, 6' away from the foundation. The deck would have piers right in the middle of it.

I assured them it wasn't coming out any further than the existing sun room.

"What Sun Room?"

I show them my drawings and application for the walls under the sun room.

"That's not on the plot", so they have me draw it in too.

So for the next 15 minutes I try explaining to them that the sun room was built with the house, that I'm not arguing it's existence on paper, only it's reality on the back of my house. I came home and verified on Google Earth that it was on the house at least the year after the house was built. No SAT image for the previous year.




Finally the head inspector agrees to come out and look at it. His immediate answer is no... that I can only build walls out 6 feet under the sun room, and I can only build the deck out 6' from the house, meaning I'd also have to move my existing door. And because we removed the stairs while leveling the yard, those can't be replaced either because they'd land in the easement as well.



Ive got one last chance for hope. They are going to talk to the City Works folks and see if they are willing to give up that portion of the easement. It would be another $150.00 filing fee but at this point I'd gladly pay it.

They had no knowledge of this sun room. I could have finished my work and probably just asked for forgiveness afterward, but now that they know ahead of time, I'm stuck with the "We're forgiving the exiting wrong, but can't let you add to it" clause. So I might be left with a load of concrete pad and sidewalk that serves no purpose. :censored::censored::censored:
 
#22 ·
They had no knowledge of this sun room. I could have finished my work and probably just asked for forgiveness afterward, but now that they know ahead of time, I'm stuck with the "We're forgiving the exiting wrong, but can't let you add to it" clause. So I might be left with a load of concrete pad and sidewalk that serves no purpose.
It is also quite possible that had you installed all as wanted to then asked for forgiveness they may have taken you to court and gotten an order to have it all taken down.

I have seen this happen 5 times for construction work not permitted here in the city of Orange. Two owners fought it out in court and still lost.

Andy.
 
#26 ·
I still haven't heard back from the city.

How far could I push this? I'm assuming they couldn't say much about putting lattice up... what about just siding? Where is the line drawn?

As for the deck. I had stairs with posts in the exactly location where the deck would now go. How is the deck any different than the stairs in this regard?
 
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