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Old 01-19-2010, 02:19 PM   #1
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Garage ManCave Please Help!!!


I have a 1 plus garage and it is the only place available for a "man space/cave." Recently I added 6 cans in the ceiling about 3 ft from the wall/start of the pitch. My plan is to 5/8 drywall the entire ceiling and walls. I have above average skills and tools but am a non professional tradesman.

My garage measures 19' long x 15' wide x 10' tall. The ceiling is the concern. There are 2x6's 24"oc that make the roof/ceiling and measure 7 1/2 ft long on each side of the pitch. There are only 4 total 2x6 joists that run the width of the garage at 7 1/2 ft tall. One at the front and back of the garage, then 2 toward the back at about 3ft and 6ft from back wall. They do not look like they are totally secure as I can loosely move them with my hand but would require more force to remove them (from the looks, they are not in direct contact with the pitch of the roof). Originally I thought they were only there to have a place to attach an outlet box for the garage opener and light box. The home depot associate told me that there needs to be joists every stud to support the weight of the drywall and that would become the new ceiling of the garage. PROBLEM #1. The height of the side walls is 7 1/2ft and the garage door opener hangs above this level so I would need extensions for that and after reattaching the opener below this new ceiling height, it could potentally be too low.

Along the peak of the ceiling, there are 1x8's every other stud (48"oc) that act as some sort of joist. They are as high as they can go on the ceiling and cross like a joist would. My original idea was to beef them up and add cedar 2x6's every stud (24") to screw the drywall into. The original 2x6 joist that are at 3ft and 6ft would be joined together at 3 ft mark and I would have a little "loft" space for random garage stuff. Can anyone see a problem with my idea structrually? So my vision for the space is to have the drywall on all the side walls, the pitch of the ceiling, and then there would be a little flat part at the top for a ceiling from the supports.

My main purpose it to insulate the space, and make it into a workshop and have a dart board for beers and sports pictures, etc....

Can I....

Option #1 - go ahead and drywall the space as described without adding 2x6 joists running the width of the garage.

Option #2- drywall the side walls and for the ceiling, use some sort of polycarbonate corragated roofing panels at 5lbs per 24"x8'. It is more expensive but a fraction of the weight of drywall (35lbs same size)

Option #3- after insulating the ceiling, use some sort of plastic sheathing like a vapor barrior to somewhat finish off the look.

I would like to avoid adding more joists but if there was a way to beef them up and only have a couple that would work too. Or maybe I can start the joist up to the middle of the pitch instead of at the bottom.

Please help me make my ManCave!
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Old 01-19-2010, 09:14 PM   #2
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Garage ManCave Please Help!!!


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Old 01-20-2010, 10:00 AM   #3
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Garage ManCave Please Help!!!


It is a little difficult to see the pics, but from what I can tell, the 2x6's spanning the width of the garage are ceiling joists, and the 1x8's at the upper end of the pitch are collar ties. It seems that the builder is using these as means to prevent the downward pressure of the ridge from splaying the walls outward. The problem with it is the collar ties are placed too high to be effective. The ceiling joists are doing the job of keeping the building from spreading, but there arent enough of them to be 100% effective. So, the combination of the two is what is keeping the building together.
Collar ties need to be installed in the lower 1/3rd of the rafters to do the job, and yes there should be one collar tie per rafter pair. Check to see if you put collar ties just above the level of the garage door opener, they will still be in the lower 1/3rd of the rafters. If so, then I would go through and install all new collar ties, and then remove the ceiling joists. The 1x8 collar ties can stay, because they are out of the way, unless they just bother you. Once new collar ties are installed at the correct height, removing the existing ones won't hurt anything.
Then you can finish the ceiling in any type of material you want to above garage door opener height. I like the corrugated stuff idea. If you look around, you might find someone that is replacing a rusty tin roof from a barn, and they would be happy to sell them to you for FREE, if you will haul them away for them. That would be a cool look. And recycling is cool, too.
If the garage door opener is too high to use that method, then you might have to raise the finished ceiling to whatever height is needed to clear the opener, and then prevent the building from splaying out with something decorative like stainless steel braided cable with stainless turnbuckles, or SS chain, or something like that.
Just a sidenote: Can lights must say "I/C rated" in order to insulate right up to the can. I/C stands for insulation contact. If they are not I/C rated, then a 3" air gap must be left all around the can to prevent fire. Hope this helps.
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Old 01-20-2010, 11:39 PM   #4
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Garage ManCave Please Help!!!


During the last few days i've been leaning more toward the corragated roofing sheets instead of the drywall. I do have a dream for this garage to house a indoor golf hitting net and having a lower ceiling gets in the way of that.... and the garage door opener taboot! Probably not going to happen but having a lower ceiling sort of ruins it for me....

If I were to install new collar ties at 1/3 above the sidewall height, would I use some sort of joist hanger and butt joints to the rafters or would I drill a hole into the side of the rafter, then bolt through? If I chose this method, would it be strong enough to support the downward weight of drywall and then would I have to re-enforce the rafters to aviod splatering? What is splatering? I imagine its the peak where the rafters meet at the top seperating from to much outward force?

My gut tells me to just insulate the ceiling and side walls, drywall the sidewalls, and used some recycled corragated roofing sheets on the pitch.

MAIN QUESTION: How does code work? I'd imagine that my garage doesn't meet current code for Denver. But does it pass since its old construction and "grandfathered in"? If so, once I start making changes, where is the line drawn to require a permit? I'm basically just insulating and drywalling my garage. Not creating a new bedroom out there.

BTW... The cans are designed to have insulation right next to it. Thanks for thinking Big Picture!

I'm not a tradesman but feel i should have been! I really enjoy working with materials and tools. Just want to make a space I can enjoy woodworking and also have a beer while throwing some darts/watching the game!!!! Big ideas, i know....
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Old 01-23-2010, 12:02 AM   #5
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Check with your local B.D. The collar ties keep the ridge and rafter ends from separating in high winds. The rafter ties, substitute for ceiling joists when running perpendicular to the rafters. Moving the rafter ties off the top plate requires additional concerns: nailing at joint: http://www.engineersedge.com/civil_e...onnections.htm

As per code: http://www.ct.gov/dps/lib/dps/office...06/i-02-06.pdf

In the bottom 1/3: http://myconco.com/ComEngProb.html

Change in span for sized rafters, per your local code: http://www.hcnv.us/bldg_dpt/document...rTable5-08.pdf

Be safe, Gary
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Old 09-12-2010, 08:05 AM   #6
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Garage ManCave Please Help!!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by ManCaveMark View Post
If I were to install new collar ties at 1/3 above the sidewall height,
I'm just repeating what I've read in some other threads lately.... collar ties are supposed to be in the upper third of roof, not the lower (closer to ridge than the "ceiling" level. They work against wind uplift. The lower horizontal members are rafter ties, to keep the walls from splaying out if a monster snowload pushes straight down.

Don't forget to include some ventilation and watch condensation issues inside the space.

For your main ?, just ask building inspector to stop by. If they tell you that you MUST do xyz, instead of that you have a grandfathered issue, they probably believe there is a real safety issue. More likely you'll get free advice, standing there looking at it!
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Old 09-14-2011, 08:47 AM   #7
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Garage ManCave Please Help!!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by ManCaveMark View Post
I have a 1 plus garage and it is the only place available for a "man space/cave." Recently I added 6 cans in the ceiling about 3 ft from the wall/start of the pitch. My plan is to 5/8 drywall the entire ceiling and walls. I have above average skills and tools but am a non professional tradesman.

My garage measures 19' long x 15' wide x 10' tall. The ceiling is the concern. There are 2x6's 24"oc that make the roof/ceiling and measure 7 1/2 ft long on each side of the pitch. There are only 4 total 2x6 joists that run the width of the garage at 7 1/2 ft tall. One at the front and back of the garage, then 2 toward the back at about 3ft and 6ft from back wall. They do not look like they are totally secure as I can loosely move them with my hand but would require more force to remove them (from the looks, they are not in direct contact with the pitch of the roof). Originally I thought they were only there to have a place to attach an outlet box for the garage opener and light box. The home depot associate told me that there needs to be joists every stud to support the weight of the drywall and that would become the new ceiling of the garage. PROBLEM #1. The height of the side walls is 7 1/2ft and the garage door opener hangs above this level so I would need extensions for that and after reattaching the opener below this new ceiling height, it could potentally be too low.

Along the peak of the ceiling, there are 1x8's every other stud (48"oc) that act as some sort of joist. They are as high as they can go on the ceiling and cross like a joist would. My original idea was to beef them up and add cedar 2x6's every stud (24") to screw the drywall into. The original 2x6 joist that are at 3ft and 6ft would be joined together at 3 ft mark and I would have a little "loft" space for random garage stuff. Can anyone see a problem with my idea structrually? So my vision for the space is to have the drywall on all the side walls, the pitch of the ceiling, and then there would be a little flat part at the top for a ceiling from the supports.

My main purpose it to insulate the space, and make it into a workshop and have a dart board for beers and sports pictures, etc....

Can I....

Option #1 - go ahead and drywall the space as described without adding 2x6 joists running the width of the garage.

Option #2- drywall the side walls and for the ceiling, use some sort of polycarbonate corragated roofing panels at 5lbs per 24"x8'. It is more expensive but a fraction of the weight of drywall (35lbs same size)

Option #3- after insulating the ceiling, use some sort of plastic sheathing like a vapor barrior to somewhat finish off the look.

I would like to avoid adding more joists but if there was a way to beef them up and only have a couple that would work too. Or maybe I can start the joist up to the middle of the pitch instead of at the bottom.

Please help me make my ManCave!
put a hole in the gable end and slam in a new ridge beam(4x12)under the existing 2x ridge.
remove the door openner.be sure to prop up the roof before you remove the c.j. and c.t.
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Old 09-14-2011, 03:01 PM   #8
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Garage ManCave Please Help!!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by ManCaveMark View Post
I have a 1 plus garage and it is the only place available for a "man space/cave." Recently I added 6 cans in the ceiling about 3 ft from the wall/start of the pitch. My plan is to 5/8 drywall the entire ceiling and walls. I have above average skills and tools but am a non professional tradesman.

........


Please help me make my ManCave!
For garages.....this is the expert place to be....


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