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Old 05-01-2013, 11:12 AM   #1
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garage ceiling joist end cut


which end cut should i use for the ceiling joist 2x8's running 19'. There isn't much space on the top plate.
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Old 05-01-2013, 11:27 AM   #2
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garage ceiling joist end cut


Do you have a reason for wanting to cut the bird's mouth notch in them? It's unnecessary, and will, effectively, lower the load bearing limit... but not all that much.

BTW... 2x8's running a full 19'? You checked that out on a span chart? I wouldn't plan on storing anything up there.

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Old 05-01-2013, 12:30 PM   #3
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Thanks for the reply. No particular reason at all, just looking for the more stable method. I was told that 2x8's SEL STR DF S4S at 16" on center would span 19'. 5" and be able to hold drywall and insulation.
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Old 05-01-2013, 12:35 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by betto825 View Post
Thanks for the reply. No particular reason at all, just looking for the more stable method. I was told that 2x8's SEL STR DF S4S at 16" on center would span 19'. 5" and be able to hold drywall and insulation.
I haven't looked it up, but even at 12" OC, I'm pretty sure 2"x8"s (ceiling only, no floor above nor storage) can only span about 18'-9". And at 16" OC, 2"x8"s are limited to just a hair over 16'.

Of course, my memory could be off a little (I'm old), so go look it up for yourself.

No big deal. It probably only means the ceiling will sag... probably not break.
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Old 05-01-2013, 04:09 PM   #5
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garage ceiling joist end cut


Notching the beam at the end won't increase the tendency to sag, and also won't affect the bending stress in the beam.
All notching or chamfering does is to increase the shear stress at the bearing but in domestic situations, and particularly with ceilings, the loads are so low that shear is very rarely an issue.
There is little diference in the two methods, but personally I would be inclined to go with the top one. Occasionally the abrupt change in section that you have in the bottom pic can occur in a line of weakness in the grain and cause localised splitting, but that's probably splitting hairs!
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Old 05-01-2013, 05:34 PM   #6
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garage ceiling joist end cut


I would use no notch method in #1. The square notch looks like a potential fracture point to me.
One advantage is that it leaves the top plate to use for drywall attachment of the walls.
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Old 05-01-2013, 10:47 PM   #7
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thanks for the reply. No particular reason at all, just looking for the more stable method. I was told that 2x8's sel str df s4s at 16" on center would span 19'. 5" and be able to hold drywall and insulation.
s4s???
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Old 05-01-2013, 10:59 PM   #8
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garage ceiling joist end cut


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s4s???
Surfaced 4 Sides
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Old 05-02-2013, 09:14 AM   #9
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garage ceiling joist end cut


no notch, you want the bearing point to be across the bottom of the joist not up 1 1/2" into the joist. whatever notch you cut into it will then qualify as the actual width of the joist from the bearing point of the notch to the top of the joist, so a 1 1/2" notch would be like adding a 2 x 4" joist up there because the bearing point is 4" from the top of the joist.
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Old 05-02-2013, 09:48 AM   #10
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garage ceiling joist end cut


You cannot span 19 feet with a 2 x 8. Well, I guess you can if you want, but it is going to deflect pretty badly.
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Old 05-02-2013, 09:56 AM   #11
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You cannot span 19 feet with a 2 x 8. Well, I guess you can if you want, but it is going to deflect pretty badly.

that is an issue... probably best to double up some of the joists and add blocking between them mid span to add some re enforcement to the span...
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Old 05-02-2013, 10:56 AM   #12
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garage ceiling joist end cut


notching will reduce ceiling height. here is a link to the 2009 International Residential Code span tables for ceiling joists. pick out which one applies (storage in attic or not) and it will give you the allowable spans. http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/ic...9_8_par027.htm

good luck!
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Old 05-02-2013, 12:12 PM   #13
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Where do you get 20 foot 2x8 anyway? 16 are the longest you get here without special order and high expense.
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Old 05-02-2013, 01:05 PM   #14
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garage ceiling joist end cut


Joed, The local lumber yard here has them up to 32'. The 20' are $17.00

hand drive, Yes I was already planning on adding blocking.

GBrackins and jagans, if I am reading the chart correctly Douglas fir Larch SS without storage can span up to 24' 8" and with limited storage 19' 7" all at 16" on center

I am just gonna go with the 2nd method and avoid loosing ceiling height. You guys are great and your feedback is very well appreciated. Now to figure out how the heck am I gonna get those joist up there
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Old 05-02-2013, 07:50 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by betto825 View Post
Joed, The local lumber yard here has them up to 32'. The 20' are $17.00

hand drive, Yes I was already planning on adding blocking.

GBrackins and jagans, if I am reading the chart correctly Douglas fir Larch SS without storage can span up to 24' 8" and with limited storage 19' 7" all at 16" on center

I am just gonna go with the 2nd method and avoid loosing ceiling height. You guys are great and your feedback is very well appreciated. Now to figure out how the heck am I gonna get those joist up there
you could probably even split some 16 foot joists on those 19' ones and add 2' finish out pieces to add somewhat of a double to cover the span. just nail them really good together to make the double count.

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