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Old 12-20-2007, 07:30 PM   #31
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framing material estimate


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Originally Posted by Mike13 View Post
Kiwi,

It's definitely a terminology thing. You are wrong in the traditional sense of the construction industry. You are correct in a very primitive definition of a "truss".

Trusses typically use 2X4 members versus typically 2X8/10 members for ceiling joist/rafter construction. In the construction industry, trusses are engineered building components designed for specific applications, loads, etc. Those designs are also stamped by a structural engineer.

Regarding your comment of "In some cases, mostly in canopy situations, I build my own trusses.".

While it may look like a truss, in the traditional sense of the construction industry it is not a truss since it is not an "engineered" component (unless you are a structural professional engineer licensed in whatever location you are doing business). It would not pass code for usage in most localities.

Your choice of terminology does appear to be one of little experience in the framing business. Rafter ceiling??? Maybe you meant "cathedral" ceiling. Trussed ceiling-I've never heard it said like that but at least it makes a little more sense than rafter ceiling. Typically they are called roof trusses but you can attach the ceiling material to the bottom chords.
(chuckle)......after twenty years in New Zealand and Australia for Carter Holt Harvey as a project manager with 138 guys, and ten years in USA with 24 of my own crew, I've learned just enough to get me into trouble.

All of this started when I "suggested" the OP might be using trusses, note the word "suggested". Seems that word is not in Joe's language, he jumped on it, so I've had some fun at his expense. I do build my own trusses and have had no problem with code. However, ONLY on smaller construction, anything of size then I order them in. An engineer's code on a truss tells whoever that the truss meets size, fixture and moisture regulations. That doesn't mean that I cannot build my own, BUT, they also have to meet these regulations. My own engineer designed and stamped ours, but only on the plan, not on the truss. It passed with no problems.. From a cost point of view, I haven't got the equipment or time to pump out house lots of trusses so I don't. When I do build a truss, I build a truss.....

This crapola about stick framing etc was a waste of time and really has nothing to do with the construction. It's a term most builders use for any part of the house including the roof. Call it what you like, who really cares. Who really cares when I'm looking at installing a flat ceiling and I tell my crew chief that it's a flat roof or a trussed roof. He knows what I mean and either builds accordingly or orders trusses. What he does know is that he's looking at a flat ceiling, the plan and me tell him what he needs to do.
When I tell him it's a raftered ceiling, big freaking deal, he knows it not flat, it has no bottom joist, he knows what he's in for. In ten years, we haven't screwed it up yet.

I got up Joe's nose because of attitude, his. The raw definition of a truss has nothing to do licensed engineers, we use them cos it makes life easier in our job, that's why I have one on the team. The fact that any builder creates a triangle using a joist, rafters and braces means he's building a truss, no matter how primitive.

If I'm stick framing a house then I'm building it from the ground up in mostly wood, if I decide to use engineered trusses, big deal, it's still a stick framed house. A stick framed roof is just that and refers to both a flat ceiling and a cathedral ceiling, you're telling "nobody nothing"...except that you're building the whole thing yourself and it's NOT a structurally fabricated building, BTW, that's the US definition on the Internet.

I use engineered trusses wherever I can for flat ceilings and have my plans pointing that way. It saves me money by ordering them and frees the crew up for other phases of the job.

Again, terminology, who gives a rats, I'd call a roof a "tent" if I could get it build better, faster and cheaper.

MAYDOUG, if you're still out there watching this rubbish, or should I say garbage..... ...can you suggest to us if you're using trusses or if your guy is going to "stick frame" the roof.....thanks. Don't really give a hoot but it would be interesting to know what was on your plans.

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Old 12-20-2007, 08:21 PM   #32
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(chuckle)......after twenty years in New Zealand and Australia for Carter Holt Harvey as a project manager with 138 guys, and ten years in USA with 24 of my own crew, I've learned just enough to get me into trouble.

All of this started when I "suggested" the OP might be using trusses, note the word "suggested". Seems that word is not in Joe's language, he jumped on it, so I've had some fun at his expense.
At my expense! Not only did you just bury yourself with that last post/joke, with all your so called experience, you still have no idea what your talking about. I thought you were done. Keep posting and embarrassing yourself. This is getting very entertaining. I don't know if I should feel sorry for you or just laugh at you.
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Old 12-20-2007, 09:46 PM   #33
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At my expense! Not only did you just bury yourself with that last post/joke, with all your so called experience, you still have no idea what your talking about. I thought you were done. Keep posting and embarrassing yourself. This is getting very entertaining. I don't know if I should feel sorry for you or just laugh at you.
Whatever rings your bell Joe.... ...hey, consider it my Xmas gift to you.

Mike posted, I answered and I agree with him and AtlanticWBConst. that it is a terminology "thang". Tried telling you that many posts ago when I wrote "then it "suggests" that he is using trusses or whatever you might like to call them".

Still use words like "nogs", "dwangs", "lintels", "gib board" and a coupla dozen others as well, who cares, jobs get done, I get paid, crew understands me.
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Old 12-21-2007, 07:52 AM   #34
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Whatever rings your bell Joe.... ...hey, consider it my Xmas gift to you.

Mike posted, I answered and I agree with him and AtlanticWBConst. that it is a terminology "thang". Tried telling you that many posts ago when I wrote "then it "suggests" that he is using trusses or whatever you might like to call them".

Still use words like "nogs", "dwangs", "lintels", "gib board" and a coupla dozen others as well, who cares, jobs get done, I get paid, crew understands me.
You're still here! Christmas gift!!! Now I feel sorry for you. You already buried yourself just with the first and second post to me trying to explain how a stick framed roof is a truss when it's done. Your first post has to be one of the most ridiculous posts I've ever read before, especially from someone who is supposed to be a contractor.

One more thing, it's not just a terminology thing with you because no matter what way a roof gets framed whether it's stick framed or trussed you call it a truss anyway. I've never once in my life in over 20 years of framing ever heard someone call a stick framed roof a truss. If you sit there and literally build a truss the same exact way as you can order them with 2x4's or 2x6's and plates designed from an Architect or Engineer from a set of plans, then it would be considered a truss. That's not what we're talking about here.

First post from the Kiwi.

Quote:
Uhmmmmm....since the starting height for a standard wall is usually eight, nine or ten feet and the only place a standard wall has to go is up, then if a person tells me they have an eight foot ceiling and they will have a standard pitch roof then it "suggests" that he is using trusses or whatever you might like to call them. Unless you build things a little differently in your part of the woods...
If he said pitched ceiling then I'd probably suggest he's going to use rafters...
"Suggest" is the operative word.
Well, what to say to that. He has to get a roof anyway, right? So, why call it a truss and suggest a truss. I would ask the guy if it is a truss or a stick built/hand built roof, not just suggest truss.

Second post from the Kiwi.

Quote:
mmmmm.....try this"a truss is a static structure consisting of straight slender members inter-connected at joints into triangular units. " OR "An engineered building component supporting the roof in place of rafters. Roof trusses are usually constructed in a triangular shape with a number of interconnected pieces that spread a load evenly across the truss."

In some cases, mostly in canopy situations, I build my own trusses. Otherwise you are right, I order them through the normal channels. It's not called a truss simply because you "buy" it, no matter how primitive it may look in the end, if you take one ceiling joist and create a pitch by adding two "rafters" to it, add some bracing timber and space that item at the usual intervals then congrats, whether you like it or not you have built a ceiling truss....

Anything other than that is a raftered roof whether the rafter is flat across or includes a pitch.

I may be wrong but to me "stick framing" applies to the whole structure not just the roof. Maybe, as a Kiwi, I interpret differently, help somebody !!!....
There's that ceiling truss thing that you made up. It's over, done, your cooked. Next thing you'll be calling floor joists rafters alot of homeowners do which is acceptable. Consider this a Christmas gift from me to you to advise you to stop and quit while your not ahead.
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Old 12-21-2007, 07:24 PM   #35
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You go for it Joe, don't hold back, tell it like it really is.....
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Old 12-21-2007, 07:46 PM   #36
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You go for it Joe, don't hold back, tell it like it really is.....
Yes, that's always been one of my weak points.... Merry Christmas!
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Old 01-09-2009, 03:01 PM   #37
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framing material estimate


Well most general contractors charge to do the job. So they will estimate the cost of materials and labor and then add a % to that number. By only quoting you labor he is saving the money he would mark the materials up.
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Old 06-11-2009, 11:50 PM   #38
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Try getting a few more bids if you are unsure of the price quote....
Please find framers that will/do include the materials. Why?

A.) So you do not have to ''disect'' and account for every nail and square inch of lumber used. Example: approximately 20% of all delivered lumber (framing and finish) is unfit for custom installation. Do you want to be out there with a tape measure and magnifying glass checking it? Calling the supplier? Culling thru and checking every peice of lumber delivered? .... unltimately, also, turning into a jerk to the contractor by nit-picking and questionsing every fraction of an inch of waste-cut-off, etc...?????

Trust me, you should stay out of the framing and materials used, "picture". You said it yourself, you know when to let the pro's take over....

B.) Generally (99.9% of the time), contractors that quote jobs based on labor only, do it for a reason (they don't have the credit, can't get the credit, can't get an account, don't have the money, can't budget the money, don't have a good enough reputation to, etc, etc ...) - To be able to purchase the material and include it with the job quote.
(Seriously, that is what we see in the industry, and those are generally the reasons why materials will not be included on a bid....).
If you want to do business, or want to conduct business like ''them'', then you will only attract - ''similar types''....
I don't know what "If you want to do business, or want to conduct business like "them", then you will only attract - "similar types"" means but there are plenty of solid, trusted, reliable builders out there that quote labor only jobs for any number of reasons including the ones that you listed and that doesn't make them a bad option. The OP already said he trusted contractor #2 so don't knock the small guy. I've got no credit, am just starting in this business on my own and drive an '88 toyota pickup with 200k miles but I'm a third generation carpenter, have an impeccable attention to detail and work like a rented mule so enjoy the payment on the $40k pickup you conveniently positioned in your avatar while I slowly soak up the high paying custom jobs, develop a cult-like following and incur little to no overhead. GFY

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Old 06-12-2009, 01:32 PM   #39
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Why dig up a 2 1/2 year old thread?

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