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Old 12-18-2007, 04:00 PM   #16
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framing material estimate


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Originally Posted by kiwi54 View Post
Uhmmmmm....since the starting height for a standard wall is usually eight, nine or ten feet and the only place a standard wall has to go is up, then if a person tells me they have an eight foot ceiling and they will have a standard pitch roof then it "suggests" that he is using trusses or whatever you might like to call them. Unless you build things a little differently in your part of the woods...
If he said pitched ceiling then I'd probably suggest he's going to use rafters...
"Suggest" is the operative word.
Ummmmmmm, you keep saying trusses is what is suggested. I'm asking WHY are you saying trusses???? It can be stick framed with ceiling joists and rafters (hand cutting the rafters) Trusses are something you order from a truss company or lumberyard and the truss consists of the rafters and ceiling joists all in one. Trusses and stick framing is two different things.

My part of the woods use trusses and stick frame. Do you just use trusses and never stick frame with flat ceilings?

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Old 12-18-2007, 04:01 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by steve1234 View Post
I guess I'm saying I know time has a "cost", not all jobs are the same, not all contractors are looking for the same type of job all the time, all contractors don't suck, and all homeowners aren't nightmares to work for.......

I think I spent too much time on this...
Agree and agree.... ...maybe I will just put the current job and the current HO in the "don't make the same mistake again" bin...
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Old 12-18-2007, 04:24 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Joe Carola View Post
Ummmmmmm, you keep saying trusses is what is suggested. I'm asking WHY are you saying trusses???? It can be stick framed with ceiling joists and rafters (hand cutting the rafters) Trusses are something you order from a truss company or lumberyard and the truss consists of the rafters and ceiling joists all in one. Trusses and stick framing is two different things. My part of the woods use trusses and stick frame. Do you just use trusses and never stick frame with flat ceilings?
mmmmm.....try this"a truss is a static structure consisting of straight slender members inter-connected at joints into triangular units. " OR "An engineered building component supporting the roof in place of rafters. Roof trusses are usually constructed in a triangular shape with a number of interconnected pieces that spread a load evenly across the truss."

In some cases, mostly in canopy situations, I build my own trusses. Otherwise you are right, I order them through the normal channels. It's not called a truss simply because you "buy" it, no matter how primitive it may look in the end, if you take one ceiling joist and create a pitch by adding two "rafters" to it, add some bracing timber and space that item at the usual intervals then congrats, whether you like it or not you have built a ceiling truss....

Anything other than that is a raftered roof whether the rafter is flat across or includes a pitch.

I may be wrong but to me "stick framing" applies to the whole structure not just the roof. Maybe, as a Kiwi, I interpret differently, help somebody !!!....
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Old 12-18-2007, 04:32 PM   #19
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mmmmm.....try this"a truss is a static structure consisting of straight slender members inter-connected at joints into triangular units. " OR "An engineered building component supporting the roof in place of rafters. Roof trusses are usually constructed in a triangular shape with a number of interconnected pieces that spread a load evenly across the truss."

In some cases, mostly in canopy situations, I build my own trusses. Otherwise you are right, I order them through the normal channels. It's not called a truss simply because you "buy" it, no matter how primitive it may look in the end, if you take one ceiling joist and create a pitch by adding two "rafters" to it, add some bracing timber and space that item at the usual intervals then congrats, whether you like it or not you have built a ceiling truss....

Anything other than that is a raftered roof whether the rafter is flat across or includes a pitch.

I may be wrong but to me "stick framing" applies to the whole structure not just the roof. Maybe, as a Kiwi, I interpret differently, help somebody !!!....


What do you call picking up a 2x8 and nailing it to the top plate on edge from one wall to the next and then putting a 2x8 down on a set of horses and laying out a rafter with a framing square, calculator or whatever way you lay out a rafter. Now you cut the rafters and nail it on top of the top plate on both sides of a roof on each end and then take a 2x10 ridge and slide it between the rafters and nail the rest of the rafters up to the ridge?

I call it stick framing the roof. It's not called a truss around here.

What do you call it when you order a truss from the lumberyard and they have it delivered and then you lift the truss on top of the roof and nail it in?
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Old 12-18-2007, 05:18 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Joe Carola View Post
What do you call picking up a 2x8 and nailing it to the top plate on edge from one wall to the next and then putting a 2x8 down on a set of horses and laying out a rafter with a framing square, calculator or whatever way you lay out a rafter. Now you cut the rafters and nail it on top of the top plate on both sides of a roof on each end and then take a 2x10 ridge and slide it between the rafters and nail the rest of the rafters up to the ridge?

I call it stick framing the roof. It's not called a truss around here.

What do you call it when you order a truss from the lumberyard and they have it delivered and then you lift the truss on top of the roof and nail it in?
Anybody.........pleeeeeeese........ ...and again without flogging a dead horse....."stick framing" is a slang way of saying you're building a house of wood, not of brick and not of straw......this is a language "thang".....I've said that I'm stick framing a wall or stick framing a roof or house many times, doesn't mean a truss ain't a truss.....or a rafter ain't a rafter
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Old 12-18-2007, 06:15 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by kiwi54 View Post
Anybody.........pleeeeeeese........ ...and again without flogging a dead horse....."stick framing" is a slang way of saying you're building a house of wood, not of brick and not of straw......this is a language "thang".....I've said that I'm stick framing a wall or stick framing a roof or house many times, doesn't mean a truss ain't a truss.....or a rafter ain't a rafter
And you keep saying that 8' ceilings suggest trusses which is not true at all for the readers out hear.............is that slang for a stick/hand framed roof also............sounds like it to me that you call a stick framed roof that has ceiling beams and rafters a truss.
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Old 12-18-2007, 07:09 PM   #22
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And you keep saying that 8' ceilings suggest trusses which is not true at all for the readers out hear.............is that slang for a stick/hand framed roof also............sounds like it to me that you call a stick framed roof that has ceiling beams and rafters a truss.
(chuckle)......can I have some of whatever it is you're smokin'...pleeese....

The term stick framing has nothing to do with the type of roof whether rafter or truss......it's a term used defining either putting the roof together stick by stick or using engineered components. It can apply to the whole house, not just the roof. Stick framing a house means you're building it from the ground up, stick by stick, you have NOT built the majority of the home using prefabricated or structurally manufactured components.

You may use the stick framing method for building BUT you are in essence building either a raftered roof or a trussed roof.

The minute you build the roof using a ceiling joist coupled with two rafters and in many cases a ridge to stabalize the centers, you have built a truss. When you use two rafters coupled with a ridge but no ceiling joist you have built a raftered roof. If you use the stick framing method to build it, in other words you assembled the construction stick by stick instead of bringing in structural components and simply putting them together means you used the stick framing method of building.

Yup pal, even in the USA........
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Old 12-18-2007, 07:45 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by kiwi54 View Post
(chuckle)......can I have some of whatever it is you're smokin'...pleeese....

The term stick framing has nothing to do with the type of roof whether rafter or truss......it's a term used defining either putting the roof together stick by stick or using engineered components. It can apply to the whole house, not just the roof. Stick framing a house means you're building it from the ground up, stick by stick, you have NOT built the majority of the home using prefabricated or structurally manufactured components.

You may use the stick framing method for building BUT you are in essence building either a raftered roof or a trussed roof.

The minute you build the roof using a ceiling joist coupled with two rafters and in many cases a ridge to stabalize the centers, you have built a truss. When you use two rafters coupled with a ridge but no ceiling joist you have built a raftered roof. If you use the stick framing method to build it, in other words you assembled the construction stick by stick instead of bringing in structural components and simply putting them together means you used the stick framing method of building.

Yup pal, even in the USA........
I say it slowly for you. I'm talking about from the top plate, not the whole house. You said that when someone says 8' ceilings, that suggests trusses. You are 100% wrong. Call it what you want, I could care less, but if anyone with half a brain reads your posts, they will think trusses. So, you can go back and smoke whatever it is that your smoking and knock yourself out on your next stick framed/truss roof. I forgot, once the ceiling beams, rafters and ridge are installed it's a truss.
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Old 12-18-2007, 08:00 PM   #24
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I haven't been closely following this "exchange", but, FWIW:

Stick framing to me (and several other framing/builder buddies of mine) is anything that is not;

- "Pre-engineered and built", and delivered to the site.
- "Pre-built" and delivered to the site.
- "Pre-fabricated" and delivered to the site.


However, anything that is ''built'' on site, I equate/label/consider/speak of/classify as......."stick framing".

I am not trying to take sides. I will say in Joe's defense that he is a Framer by trade, and that is something to take into consideration in the discussion.

Last edited by AtlanticWBConst.; 12-18-2007 at 08:05 PM.
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Old 12-18-2007, 08:04 PM   #25
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Bottom line is, this is all about perception and terminology. Remember that, in the trades, we all take on the speech, perception, thinking patterns, work ethics, work process, and sometimes even the attitude, of the ones that trained us.
The point: Perceptions (opinions) can be different, based on how we learned, but they can also be something that is simply a minor difference of perception (opinions)....

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Old 12-18-2007, 08:15 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Joe Carola View Post
I say it slowly for you. I'm talking about from the top plate, not the whole house. You said that when someone says 8' ceilings, that suggests trusses. You are 100% wrong. Call it what you want, I could care less, but if anyone with half a brain reads your posts, they will think trusses. So, you can go back and smoke whatever it is that your smoking and knock yourself out on your next stick framed/truss roof. I forgot, once the ceiling beams, rafters and ridge are installed it's a truss.

mmmmmmm........so we just wasted a page and a half of thread so you could tell me that what I was suggesting was a truss roof REALLY is a truss roof.....go figure.
If maydoug tells me that he's building a standard 8' ceiling with an attic and pitched roof then he can't be building a raftered ceiling, it's impossible. He's building a trussed ceiling and he's stick framing it, in other words he's building the whole thing stick by stick on site.
I agree with AtlanticWBConst., much is in terminology. You can call it whatever you like, potayto, potarto...... ...it;s all the same.
I'm done.
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Old 12-18-2007, 10:01 PM   #27
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mmmmmmm........so we just wasted a page and a half of thread so you could tell me that what I was suggesting was a truss roof REALLY is a truss roof.....go figure.
My God! I wasn't agreeing with you at all. I'll add to what I said before:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Carola
I forgot, once the ceiling beams, rafters and ridge are installed it's a truss IN YOUR MIND.


It's not a truss!


Quote:
If maydoug tells me that he's building a standard 8' ceiling with an attic and pitched roof then he can't be building a raftered ceiling, it's impossible.
Raftered ceiling a new word? Where did that come from? If a Home owner had a set of plans that called for 2x8 ceiling joist, 2x8 rafters and a 2x10 ridge and didn't know what he was looking at and asked me if the roof was going to be trusses, I would say no, it will be a stick framed roof where I cut and nail the ceiling and rafters on. A truss is something you order and comes in one piece. You would tell them that they're getting a truss or trussed ceiling, or it will be a truss when it's done. Brilliant!

Quote:
If maydoug tells me that he's building a standard 8' ceiling with an attic and pitched roof then he can't be building a raftered ceiling, it's impossible. He's building a trussed ceiling
Trussed ceiling??? Is that another name for a stick built roof also?

Ceiling beams, rafters and ridge for you so far are called, "Raftered Ceilings", "Trussed Ceilings" and "Trusses".WOW! I'm glad your done making up words here.
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Old 12-20-2007, 09:45 AM   #28
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Kiwi,

It's definitely a terminology thing. You are wrong in the traditional sense of the construction industry. You are correct in a very primitive definition of a "truss".

Trusses typically use 2X4 members versus typically 2X8/10 members for ceiling joist/rafter construction. In the construction industry, trusses are engineered building components designed for specific applications, loads, etc. Those designs are also stamped by a structural engineer.

Regarding your comment of "In some cases, mostly in canopy situations, I build my own trusses.".

While it may look like a truss, in the traditional sense of the construction industry it is not a truss since it is not an "engineered" component (unless you are a structural professional engineer licensed in whatever location you are doing business). It would not pass code for usage in most localities.

Your choice of terminology does appear to be one of little experience in the framing business. Rafter ceiling??? Maybe you meant "cathedral" ceiling. Trussed ceiling-I've never heard it said like that but at least it makes a little more sense than rafter ceiling. Typically they are called roof trusses but you can attach the ceiling material to the bottom chords.
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Old 12-20-2007, 10:08 AM   #29
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And to the OP, since you are only asking for help on the "framing" material I assume you have the plans done & know what is required. It would take less than 1 hour to stop off @ Home Depot & pull the prices.

Let's see, the following probably will account for 80% of what you need...

X# feet of 2X4 PT sill plate - $__________
X# feet of 2X10 floor joists - $__________
X# feet of 2X10 rim boards - $_________
X# of 4'X8'X3/4" subfloor panels - $______
X# of 2X4X8' bottom & top plates - $_______
X# of 2X4X93" or 8' wall studs - $_______
X# feet of 2X8 or X10 ceiling joists - $______
X# feet of 2X8 rafters - $______
X# feet of ridge beam - $_________
X# of 4'X8'X7/16 OSB roof sheathing panels - $_____
Miscellaneous to include construction adhesive, nails,
joists hangers, hurricane ties, etc. $__________
Add sales tax $_______
Add pickup/delivery charges $__________
Add 20% fudge factor $_________

Total framing materials $__________

Pretty easy, huh?

Or just use $35/sf X 250 sq ft = $8,750.
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Old 12-20-2007, 01:41 PM   #30
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Around these parts the construction industry uses the terms "truss" and "stick built" as Joe C. described them.

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