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-   -   Frame of door is plumb and level, door itself is not (http://www.diychatroom.com/f19/frame-door-plumb-level-door-itself-not-121832/)

dwoloz 10-30-2011 05:05 PM

Frame of door is plumb and level, door itself is not
 
I installed a very heavy glass 36x92 door and while I have the frame perfectly level and plumb, the door is out of level. The top latch side corner should come up at least 3/16"
Because of the out of level, the bottom latch side edge is rubbing and the latch doesn't line up well.

What does one do to correct this?

gregzoll 10-30-2011 05:31 PM

Really need pictures. Take a shot standing about six feet away, so that the whole door on both sides can be seen. Then take another shot closer up, showing the jamb from floor to top, with the door open. Also having the level against it, helps to see.

ddawg16 10-30-2011 06:38 PM

Let me guess.....the frame was nailed to the studs before you put on the door?

It has been my expeince that no mater how plumb and square I think I have the frame....once the door is on, I have minor changes to make. Hence, I put the door on when I shim the frame.

In your case, I'm willing to bet that your door framed moved a little when you put the heavy glass door on. All it takes is for just a little give in the hinges to cause the other end to be off.

Ron6519 10-30-2011 07:01 PM

The jamb legs aren't level.

woodworkbykirk 10-30-2011 07:21 PM

the door jamb can be set plumb however if the wall itself is either out of plumb or has a wind in it you will have the problem you are having. take your level and check the wall itself for plumb on both sides of the door. if this is the case there are a few things you can do to fix the door

1 is to remove the baseboard then figure out what wall is out of plumb.. from there toenails a spike through the bottom plate so to draw the plate over which will bring the wall closer into plumb... provided there is space between the sole plate and the finished flooring..

2) set the jamb plumb in relation to the face of the wall

3) adjust the depth of the hinges in regards to where they lay on the jamb itself which can fine tune the door being plumb

jcrack_corn 10-30-2011 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wooworkbykirk (Post 760342)
the door jamb can be set plumb however if the wall itself is either out of plumb or has a wind in it you will have the problem you are having. take your level and check the wall itself for plumb on both sides of the door. if this is the case there are a few things you can do to fix the door

1 is to remove the baseboard then figure out what wall is out of plumb.. from there toenails a spike through the bottom plate so to draw the plate over which will bring the wall closer into plumb... provided there is space between the sole plate and the finished flooring..

2) set the jamb plumb in relation to the face of the wall

3) adjust the depth of the hinges in regards to where they lay on the jamb itself which can fine tune the door being plumb

what?

First, you still want a door/jamb plumb irregardless of the wall being plumb or not. that is how doors work.

second, #1 and #2 are just absolutely wrong, and #3 is passable.

1. definitely dont try to move the sole-plate. Sometimes it can be done, most times it cant (properly attached to foundation/subfloor), and even if you do, if it work expect some serious plaster/sheetrock touch ups, an caulking. The advice is borderline ridiculous

2. you definitely dont want the door to be on the same plane/plumb relative to an out of plumb wall. this is absolutely ridiculous. I am not even going to explain why.

3. yes, adjusting hinge depth is an ok way to fix small problems.

However, op, in this case it sounds like the heavy door is probably distorting the thin wood door frames that are used today. you will probably save time by taking the door off, reverse what you have done, call a friend over to put door back on frame and shim and fasten it with the door on so you can test it live.

you may need to replace every jamb hinge screw with full depth screws into the studs for added stability.

woodworkbykirk 10-30-2011 08:26 PM

ok buddy, i dont know what your smoking but ive hung close to 1000 doors both in new construction and renovation situations.

drawing the plate over to take the wind out of the wall is done by many high renovation carpenters and a method recommended in trade magazines some of which i have been in . the jamb has to be plumb for the door to operate

2 is very correct, like i said the jamb has to be plumb not the wall. at no point did i say to keep the jamb flush to the drywall or plaster... if the wall is plumb then yes the jamb is kept flush with the drywall. once done the casing or jamb may need to be furred out



and # 3 is a last resort when nothing else can be done

loneframer 10-30-2011 08:33 PM

First thing I'd do is check the door itself. I've seen doors drop out of square far enough to break the glass.

Put a level on the hinge barrels with the door closed and check for plumb, with a good level. You might have a situation where the weight of the door is pulling the top hinge and compressing the bottom.

amgdiy 10-31-2011 08:15 AM

Put the Door on Before Screwing in the Frame
 
I found that I could get the frame level and plumb, but once I put the door on, everything changed. Here's what I did: I shimmed the frame so that it was level and plumb and put screwed it in on each side toward the bottom of the frame. Then I put the door on and re-worked the frame so the door would shut correctly and then screwed the rest of the frame in. Screws worked best in my case b/c I had to unscrew the frame a couple of times to shift it so the door would close. Good hint is to screw behind the weatherstripping that comes on the frame to not only hide the screws but also to hide any "mistaken" screw holes.

Willie T 10-31-2011 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loneframer (Post 760410)
First thing I'd do is check the door itself. I've seen doors drop out of square far enough to break the glass.

Put a level on the hinge barrels with the door closed and check for plumb, with a good level. You might have a situation where the weight of the door is pulling the top hinge and compressing the bottom.

This is the ONLY way to check for plumb. (hinge to hinge) Putting a level on the wood is often useless.

jcrack_corn 10-31-2011 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wooworkbykirk (Post 760406)
ok buddy, i dont know what your smoking but ive hung close to 1000 doors both in new construction and renovation situations.

drawing the plate over to take the wind out of the wall is done by many high renovation carpenters and a method recommended in trade magazines some of which i have been in . the jamb has to be plumb for the door to operate

2 is very correct, like i said the jamb has to be plumb not the wall. at no point did i say to keep the jamb flush to the drywall or plaster... if the wall is plumb then yes the jamb is kept flush with the drywall. once done the casing or jamb may need to be furred out



and # 3 is a last resort when nothing else can be done


i see carpenters and other tradesmen everyday who have done a thousand of something the wrong way.

the wall plumb makes no difference and you shouldnt be banging walls plumb. you will cause cracking/gaps in the sheetrock/trim (that may not surface until you are long gone), and further you may compromise some floating sill systems in seismic areas.

the ONLY thing that needs to be plumb is the door and and the jamb/frame. any differences in the door standing proud of the wall due the the wall being out of plumb can be made up/taken out with the casing.

woodworkbykirk 10-31-2011 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcrack_corn (Post 760843)
i see carpenters and other tradesmen everyday who have done a thousand of something the wrong way.

the wall plumb makes no difference and you shouldnt be banging walls plumb. you will cause cracking/gaps in the sheetrock/trim (that may not surface until you are long gone), and further you may compromise some floating sill systems in seismic areas.

the ONLY thing that needs to be plumb is the door and and the jamb/frame. any differences in the door standing proud of the wall due the the wall being out of plumb can be made up/taken out with the casing.


#1 im one of several carpenters in my city who are called to fix doors that arent installed correctly by production guys.. out of the doors ive hung ive only had callbacks on 2 or 3

#2 drawing a bottom plate over by 1/4" isnt going to crack drywall. old plaster possibly, plus having to tap drywall around rough openings by lightly tapping it with a hammer can fix proud drywall with no issue at a later date unless its pulverized.

#3 is exactly what i stated already. when i hang doors in renovation situations involving old homes i have to do this all the time. via furring the back of casing for it to lay correctly on the wall and jamb or on the opposite side plane off some material off the jamb if its not on the side that the door opens

jcrack_corn 10-31-2011 09:15 PM

drawing a bottom plate over 1/4" will move the wall at the top of the door frame (82" high) over approx 1/12 of an inch. (for an 8ft wall....slight more for a 10ft wall, and slightly more for a 12ft wall). (the top of the wall at the ceiling moves zero).

it is not enough to make a difference, argue all you want, math and geometry always win.

and moving it more has many potential detrimental effects.....besides..you dont need to move the damn wall.

you are not getting call backs because you know how to install a door, not because you are moving bottom plates 1/4" here and there.

rubberhead 10-31-2011 09:40 PM

Alright, so what did we figure out here?

woodworkbykirk 10-31-2011 09:57 PM

no, i get callbacks to do more work on other areas of peoples homes i have previously worked on and i get referrals from them.. its called doing independent work and working for the best of the best for quality in my region..

i see no proof of your work in your profile


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