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Old 02-10-2008, 02:51 PM   #16
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floor joists butt ended over wall?


thats right oldhouseowner.It really is about how your inspector interprets the code. Forget about the beer,I doubt that that case ever leaves the beverage store.

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Old 02-12-2008, 08:10 PM   #17
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floor joists butt ended over wall?


Ah, never mind, I'll have to drink the old homebrew again.

Thanks again for all your help everyone. You rock!

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Old 02-12-2008, 08:55 PM   #18
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Johnrem; As you said Ohio might allow it but NJ sure doesnt. Also My comment about MAYBE the reason for no butts was that the loads tend to pull those butts apart did not say it would pull the joist off. That said a question for ya.Say you frame floor with standard code approved lumber and have that 1 1/2 Minimum Dimension. Tell me what dimension you will have in about 3 years once it is enclosed and heat has been applied to the structure?
You are still entitled to the soda tho for your diligence for going to the code book. Next time I am in Mentor I will let ya know,
However answer the quiz if you please :}:}:}:}
Old house make me feel better after your home brew by telling me you will overlap those joists
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Old 02-12-2008, 09:54 PM   #19
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Johnrem; As you said Ohio might allow it but NJ sure doesnt. Also My comment about MAYBE the reason for no butts was that the loads tend to pull those butts apart did not say it would pull the joist off. That said a question for ya.Say you frame floor with standard code approved lumber and have that 1 1/2 Minimum Dimension. Tell me what dimension you will have in about 3 years once it is enclosed and heat has been applied to the structure?
You are still entitled to the soda tho for your diligence for going to the code book. Next time I am in Mentor I will let ya know,
However answer the quiz if you please :}:}:}:}
Old house make me feel better after your home brew by telling me you will overlap those joists
Skymaster, appreciate your concern. Yes, I'm overlapping. There was only one Joist in question where I was tempted to not, as after doubling around the staircase opening that I had no room as the rafter was sitting on the part of the plate where the overlapped joist would go.

It's good to clarify things here in the Forum, I like the fact that we generally find good reasons for what is done.

And thanks for letting me finish my beer. It was delicous. Gulp. You should have one too!

Last edited by Oldhouseowner; 02-12-2008 at 09:57 PM. Reason: Incoherent babbling by oldhouse
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Old 02-13-2008, 09:14 AM   #20
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Johnrem; As you said Ohio might allow it but NJ sure doesnt. Also My comment about MAYBE the reason for no butts was that the loads tend to pull those butts apart did not say it would pull the joist off. That said a question for ya.Say you frame floor with standard code approved lumber and have that 1 1/2 Minimum Dimension. Tell me what dimension you will have in about 3 years once it is enclosed and heat has been applied to the structure?
You are still entitled to the soda tho for your diligence for going to the code book. Next time I am in Mentor I will let ya know,
However answer the quiz if you please :}:}:}:}
Old house make me feel better after your home brew by telling me you will overlap those joists
We had this discussion with the local building official and it became a matter of personal preference.
We posed the question as a comparison to a floor joist which has been boxed on the perimeter of an exterior 2 x 4 wall.
This floor joist only extends over the plate a min. of 2",the 1 1/2 band joist making up the remainder of the space.
It seems that butted joints properly done would suffice.
My personal preference is to overlap for the pure ease of getting some decent nailing into the plate.
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Old 02-13-2008, 10:22 AM   #21
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Olfrt; WE know you are still a kid I agree with you the only thing i would like to repeat is this particticular situation we are talking is NOT the normal rim joist ,floor joist setup. It is an interior partition where Oldhouse wants to add a heavier set of floor joists and one suggestion was to just sister them and only butt the ends giving ONLY 1 1/2 - 1 3/4 bearing. :}:}:}:}:}:}
The consensus is to NOT do that and overlap them.
The only other choice I see is if a whole buch of us go to his house and fix it for him. OF COURSE food and beer and lodging will be on his tab ROFLOL

Oldhouse: WE are expensive but we are worth it LOL LOL Have anudder brewskie
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Old 02-13-2008, 11:33 AM   #22
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I have no formulas for the quiz but what I know is....lets assume joist is 14'x2"x10"...with tape measure,it would be exactly 14' x 1 1/2 x about 9 3/8. The shrinkage on the length is minimal (if any).this is never an issue.The width will also not change much to notice.Now I have seen the hight of joist to shrink down to about 8 7/8. Around here we see alot of vinyl siding popping loose at the rim joist hight because of this,(houses about 3 years old) I agree that butting in this manner is not the best,but on 90 year old houses you sometimes have to wing it.And it will work.Just want to add..If you do bolt the wood or metal splice,you must drill the holes the exact size to where you have to tap the bolts with your hammer.You do not want any slop in these holes....I hope I pass the quiz...and skymaster,look foward to seeing you in Mentor. I used to down a few at the old depot at RT615 and tyler .(probably why it's soft drinks only now)
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Old 02-13-2008, 12:10 PM   #23
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ROFLMFAO OK John you win!!!!!!!!!!!!!! All I was getting at is with normal lumber and its moisture content within 3 years it will shrink at least 1/4 to maybe 3/8 therefore if you start with that 1 1/2 minimum in 3 years it will NOT meet minimums. :}:}:}:} Sorry but here in NJ if we did that the first thing an inspector would do is shoot our ass then hang a red sticker on it :}:}:}:}:}:}
You are on tho for that iced Tea I will give ya a heads up when we are going out to visti grand daughter and family.
Hell I feel generous 2 yeah give ya 2 big ones LOL LOL
Jack

Last edited by skymaster; 02-13-2008 at 12:12 PM.
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Old 02-13-2008, 12:30 PM   #24
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ok you guys are worried about butting the floor joist but i would think the LB wall under neath isnt strong enough to hold the weight. if its just 2x4 and im betting its not load bearing its just a wall. shouldnt there need to be a header across there like 2 2x6's together to give enough support. also better check under neath the wall, if that is supported to the foundation. sounds like a disaster waiting to happen, i started to say accident but if something is built wrong then it cant be a accident when it fails.

here would be a news article local family trapped when floor falls and fold up like a book.
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Old 02-13-2008, 12:41 PM   #25
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ok you guys are worried about butting the floor joist but i would think the LB wall under neath isnt strong enough to hold the weight. if its just 2x4
Why isn't a 2x4 wall strong enough? 2x4 walls can handle 2 and 3 story houses. If that wall is the center bearing wall sitting on top of the main girder, he's fine. If there are any openings in the wall below and he's adding weight , he has to make sure the headers in that wall can handle what he's putting on above. I'm just saying that there's no need to be concerned if a wall is a 2x4 wall.
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Old 02-13-2008, 01:06 PM   #26
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It's a common misconception that many people with minimal framing/building backgrounds have.

They often think that 2x6 framing is based on structural load requirements, when it is based on greater wall-depth to achieve a higher R-Value when using fiberglass batt insulation. As Joe already stated, 2x4's are perfectly sound for carrying several floors of weight.
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Old 02-13-2008, 01:31 PM   #27
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post #1 states that it is load bearing wall. Post#4 states wall is offset 36".Post #9 suggests to leave load bearing requirments for an engineer.(other things involved sush as first floor construction).2x6 studs will increase the load carrying capacity of the wall,(but doubtful that it is needed here).It would give you more bearing for end butted joists but I think we're done with that. Unrelated,,another time to use 2x6 studs is in a tall wall (up to 16'),to limit in and out movement.
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Old 02-13-2008, 09:50 PM   #28
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I would dare say that 1.5" is a general min case rule. I guarantee that somewhere else there is a joist chart that substantially reduces the allowable loads with such application. This would be similar to hanging a joist from the side of a beam with a hanger as a opposed to sitting it on top. From what I read in this post I would certainly not recommend this method.
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Old 02-13-2008, 10:45 PM   #29
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Olfrt;
The consensus is to NOT do that and overlap them.
The only other choice I see is if a whole buch of us go to his house and fix it for him. OF COURSE food and beer and lodging will be on his tab ROFLOL

Oldhouse: WE are expensive but we are worth it LOL LOL Have anudder brewskie

ROFLMAO - I dunno we have to get some jello so you guys can wrestle out the Joist issue. So here we are beer, food, lodging and Jello.

No worries! When are you coming? - I've got to tell the Canadian border guards!
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Old 02-14-2008, 07:05 AM   #30
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My Vote: Overlap them. That's how we would do them.

(FWIW: It's standard building practice with every builder, GC, & framer I know...)


Last edited by AtlanticWBConst.; 02-14-2008 at 07:20 AM.
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