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Old 06-08-2013, 10:22 PM   #1
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Floor jacks? Not permanent?


Leveling floors in a house I bought. 12 foot span to center beam from crawl wall. Adding second beam between crawl wall and the center beam. Want to use these jacks.

But it says they are temporary. I am going to dig and pour a sizable concrete footing for each one, thought I could bolt them to the concrete and on the top I would weld up a saddle for the wood beams and weld it to the top of the jack.

But this won't be permanent?

Ill have to build block supports next to the jacks?

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Old 06-08-2013, 10:54 PM   #2
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Floor jacks? Not permanent?


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Leveling floors in a house I bought. 12 foot span to center beam from crawl wall. Adding second beam between crawl wall and the center beam. Want to use these jacks.

But it says they are temporary. I am going to dig and pour a sizable concrete footing for each one, thought I could bolt them to the concrete and on the top I would weld up a saddle for the wood beams and weld it to the top of the jack.

But this won't be permanent?

Ill have to build block supports next to the jacks?
They are more or less temporary, the pipes are not much thicker than heavy sheet metal, black iron gas pipes are thicker walled than these, you enclose one in a wall or something and get some corrosion started on the bottom and in a short period of time it'll fail.

I had a problem in my 1930 cross-gable house when I first bought it, the main support between the two sections ran a clear span of 15 feet, and i s 6" wide and 8" deep. It's notched along one side for the joists in that section to toe into, it runs parallel with the other section's joists.

Above it, it supported a plaster and lath wall which in turn supported the roof above it as that is where the two opposing roof planes join.
so 15 feet of that one roof resting parallel on that wall which rested on the 6x8 support with the notches on one side.

It also had some decay on one end where it rested bare on the concrete foundation and where there was a nearby brick chimney that leaked.

The support had sagged in the middle several inches.


The way I fixed that was I dug down and poured a footing about 24" square and then I bought a couple of 6" wide steel channels 24 feet long and had one cut into a couple of 7 foot pieces and some 2 foot pieces.
The other cut to about 15 feet.

I got the 7 foot pieces up flat against the 6x8 wood support on either side of where the new column was going
I used 4 of those floor jacks to get them in place and take the sag out.

Then I built a block column 2 blocks wide (16x16) and topped it with solid 4" blocks.
I took 4 pieces of that 6" steel channel about 2 feet long each, welded and bolted them together to form 2 I beams, those were laid on top of the column, one has a 1/2" thick 6" wide steel plate on top mostly to take up the space to get to the right height.

The other is under the joists that rest on the notched support so they would have steel supporting them.
a piece of 1/4" thick diamond plate steel I had is on top of both since I couldn't get the new column directly under the 6x8 support due to an 8" thick concrete slab floor (rest of the floor then was dirt)

The center 2 floor jacks were let down so the weight would rest on the steel. I left the other 2 jacks in place without enclosing them, problem solved for 15 years now.



The white arrow is the 6x8 support, the yellow arrows are the 6" channel, blue is the 1/4" steel plate and red is the 1/2" steel plate.
The majority of the weight is on the column which supports the center of the span that originally had nothing, the 7 foor pieces with the floor jacks are just additional support that isn't really necessary but I left them in place.




This view shows how the joists on one side were installed into the 6x8 support by notching the 6x8 for them, a really poor design as all those notches severely weakened this support and it had a 15 foot span, a plaster and lath wall on it, half the weight of the floor in one section, and half the weight of the roof in that section on it too.
You gotta wonder what they were thinking in 1930...

Obviously the steel I added both under the 6x8 and the ends of the joists is a much better improvement over the way it was built in 1930.

Maybe these will give you some ideas.


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Old 06-08-2013, 11:23 PM   #3
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Ill have to build block supports next to the jacks?
I'd use the jack(s) to temporarily raise/support and build a block column for the support.
It's real easy to build one like this alternating the direction of the blocks on each course, you can also fill the cavities if you wish but that may be overkill.
Cap the top with solid blocks.

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Old 06-09-2013, 07:41 AM   #4
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Floor jacks? Not permanent?


I can save you a lot of reading:

Yes, "teleposts" that come in two pieces and slide together are not intended for long term use. But, they do make plenty of thicker walled columns with an adjustable screw jack for permanent use.........
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Old 06-09-2013, 09:48 AM   #5
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That is not a wood shim on top of the stacked masonry block is it? Who would go through all that trouble to use steel and masonry to support a load and then stick a piece of wood in the chain?

And we all know that a chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

Speaking of "Links" I checked out the specifications on the jack and the gage of the steel is mysteriously missing. Another quality item from "Blows" by way of China.
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Old 06-09-2013, 11:56 AM   #6
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Being a welder, I think I am just going to build my own columns out of 4" pipe. I am not a mason. One would hard pressed to get me to believe that concrete blocks would be stronger than steel.

Not like it is a huge house, only going to be supporting 6' on either side of the beams.
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Old 06-09-2013, 12:09 PM   #7
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Floor jacks? Not permanent?


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Being a welder, I think I am just going to build my own columns out of 4" pipe. I am not a mason. One would hard pressed to get me to believe that concrete blocks would be stronger than steel.

Not like it is a huge house, only going to be supporting 6' on either side of the beams.
A chunk of sched 80 pipe should work nicely. Concrete is just a lot cheaper....

Since your a welder....your option is actually cheaper 'to you'....free labor...just the cost of the pipe. For shims....just have a stack of 1/16" square plates handy. Your most likely going to get it dead nuts on with the temp jack...make your pipe with pads to that....maybe a 1/16" sort....put new pipe in place...if your short...jack up a fraction and push in shim....once it's all plumb....seam weld in place.
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Old 06-09-2013, 12:18 PM   #8
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Floor jacks? Not permanent?


Quote:
Originally Posted by JimL View Post
Being a welder, I think I am just going to build my own columns out of 4" pipe. I am not a mason. One would hard pressed to get me to believe that concrete blocks would be stronger than steel.

Not like it is a huge house, only going to be supporting 6' on either side of the beams.
This should help, if you download the "Available Column Sizes"......

http://www.tigerbrandjackpost.com/im...mn%20Sizes.pdf
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Old 06-09-2013, 02:28 PM   #9
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That is not a wood shim on top of the stacked masonry block is it? Who would go through all that trouble to use steel and masonry to support a load and then stick a piece of wood in the chain?

And we all know that a chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

Speaking of "Links" I checked out the specifications on the jack and the gage of the steel is mysteriously missing. Another quality item from "Blows" by way of China.
Yeah but if the construction is already ten times the strength that's needed for the job, it's not critical.
Another support in the house only had a 2x4x6' set on a brick on the dirt floor for the support post.

That is a 6" x 16" x 3/4" thick oak board, that portion is only supporting a couple hundred pounds at most since those joists were all notched into the 6x8 and rest on that.

When you figure white oak's compressive strength is 7,440 psi, a 6"x16" board laid flat on an even surface is going to support the weight of the house.
It's not in a location where it would ever be exposed to water/rot.

I had to buy the steel in 24' lengths and I had plenty left over, so I installed the extra piece there, there was a 5/8" to 3/4" gap to fill and I had no more thick steel flats left. The actual supporting is done under the 6x8, the other steel with the oak shim is just an extra measure, there's 2 other supports for that piece of steel at both end not shown in the photo of the center column, it's worked fine for 16 years.

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Old 06-09-2013, 02:35 PM   #10
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Floor jacks? Not permanent?


Quote:
Originally Posted by JimL View Post
Being a welder, I think I am just going to build my own columns out of 4" pipe. I am not a mason. One would hard pressed to get me to believe that concrete blocks would be stronger than steel.

Not like it is a huge house, only going to be supporting 6' on either side of the beams.
That should be fine, and much better than the thin sheet metal floor jacks.
The pipe would be stronger than concrete blocks I would imagine, unless it begins to corrode- the concrete blocks don't corrode and don't need priming and paint maintenance which is a plus in their favor.
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Old 06-09-2013, 09:26 PM   #11
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Floor jacks? Not permanent?


Concrete footings with cement block to joists. Can be adjusted upward later if needed.It sure make your floor jacks permanent.
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Old 06-10-2013, 02:06 AM   #12
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Speaking of "Links" I checked out the specifications on the jack and the gage of the steel is mysteriously missing. Another quality item from "Blows" by way of China.

The Tiger Brand Jack Post Super "S" 8 ft. 4 in. Jack Post can adjust from 4 ft. 8 in. to 8 ft. 4 in. It has a compression load range of 18,000 lbs. at its lowest setting and 9,100 lbs. at its highest setting.

15ga

The whole post only weighs 18 pounds, the two pieces of pipe are only 0.0673. thick, 0.0625. is 1/16" that's pretty thin. It wouldn't take a whole lot of corrosion starting on the inside of the pipe before it lost a substantial amount of strength, and being made in China we know how the "quality" of their primers and paints would be, and how "well" they ensure every bit of the steel is covered well.
I'd be scared of putting the 9,100# it claims this can support on one of these at full extension!

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Old 06-10-2013, 07:43 AM   #13
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Floor jacks? Not permanent?


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One would hard pressed to get me to believe that concrete blocks would be stronger than steel.
The steel can corrode and fail. Masonry won't. In a traveled area like a basement using steel would be fine. But in an inaccessible spot like a crawl space, one you're not seeing on a regular basis, it might be best not to use a material that'll corrode and fail over time.

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