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thehvacguy 12-05-2012 11:16 AM

floor caved in...
 
I'm in a 50 year old single story brick apartment. The floor caved in because the builder didn't use pressure treated lumber next to the concrete. I'm gonna tear the whole floor out and re do it. I have a few questions... Do I need to anchor the 2 by 6 to the foundation or is it ok to let it sit there and just attach of to the floor joists? Also is it ok to toe nail the floor joists or do I need to use joist hangers? Also can I use osb on top or does it need to be plywood? Thanks for the advise.

joecaption 12-05-2012 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thehvacguy (Post 1066869)
I'm in a 50 year old single story brick apartment. The floor caved in because the builder didn't use pressure treated lumber next to the concrete. I'm gonna tear the whole floor out and re do it. I have a few questions... Do I need to anchor the 2 by 6 to the foundation or is it ok to let it sit there and just attach of to the floor joists? Also is it ok to toe nail the floor joists or do I need to use joist hangers? Also can I use osb on top or does it need to be plywood? Thanks for the advise.

#1 Why are you doing this and not the property owner,
Since no one here can see what it is your suggesting hard to suggest ways to fix it. Need some pictures.
Unless your running those floor joist a few ft. 2 X 6's will not work.
Use joist hangers.
Use Advantec subflooring with constrution adhesive on top of the joist. Use ring shank ACQ approved #6 nails. The nailing pattern is right on the sheets. Advantec is far more stable and moisture resistant then plywood.

oh'mike 12-05-2012 01:57 PM

A little better description will help

how was the original floor built? Treated lumber was not invented when that house was built---what allowed water to get to the old floor structure?

Better description and we will help with some ideas.

thehvacguy 12-05-2012 09:16 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Attachment 61536

My dad owns the apartment complex and he is a slumlord. He wants to just patch up this corner bit the whole floor is sinking and I wanna lay heated tile. I built a few houses so I have an idea how to fix it I just don't know everything I need to know, I'm an HVAC guy not a framer. These are true 2 by 6's spaced 24 on center. I was thinking I can lay pressure treated 2x6 flat kinda like a bottom plate on the edge of the foundation, and one upright next to the foundation. I forget what the word is but it would go perpindicular to the floor joists. The room is 12'x10'. I figure I should only need 8 2x6's plus the pressure treated on the sides. All the walls have a concrete footing under it so it is pretty solid, only the floors are sinking cause the wood is rotted out... Moisture got in cause the dirt outside the building goes above the top of the foundation plus it wasn't properly sealed on the outside, not to mention the few feet of snow this place keeps every winter. I plan to level out the outside and make a patio so that should help. I'm not loaded with cash so I need to know the cheapest way to fix it right. I'm gonna live with plywood on my bedroom floor til I save up for the heated tile.

joecaption 12-05-2012 10:28 PM

You can forget about tiling with floors built that poorly.
Spans to long for that size joist, spacings to far apart.

http://www.the-house-plans-guide.com...an-tables.html

thehvacguy 12-05-2012 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joecaption
You can forget about tiling with floors built that poorly.
Spans to long for that size joist, spacings to far apart.

http://www.the-house-plans-guide.com...an-tables.html

What are you talking about? The span is only 10 feet and at 16 on center that's just fine...

And don't say "forget about tiling" if I need to get a Damn permalam beam under my floor I'm getting my Damn tile. Nothing is impossible in construction. That's why I do it ;)

thehvacguy 12-05-2012 10:56 PM

Just to clarify, I am demoing the whole floor cause the whole room is sinking

oh'mike 12-06-2012 02:53 AM

I'm not sure how you will do this--the house needs to be lifted up a couple of inches---then slip in the new PT sill board---

md2lgyk 12-06-2012 07:26 AM

Your profile says you're in Los Angeles. Since when does it ever snow there?

gregzoll 12-06-2012 07:43 AM

50 years ago, they would not have been using Pressure treated lumber.

oodssoo 12-06-2012 09:30 AM

Suggestion:

Just tear out the subfloor first and see what the problems truly are. To get the floor covering you want, you will definitely need to strengthen the frame. At the moment, you stated the frame is on 24" OC. You could look into the option and frame your floor on a 12" OC. This will definitely be a whole lot stronger and will allow you to have the subfloor leveled...

Just a thought...

joecaption 12-06-2012 09:38 AM

Any joist, rim joist closer then 18" to the ground will need to be pressure treated, so engineered joist or LVL's are out.

thehvacguy 12-09-2012 07:40 PM

I tore out the sub floor and saw that half of the floor joists were completely rotted. I pulled them out effortlessly with my hands. I just re framed the floor and stuck the floor joists going in the opposite direction so they were only 10' long. I have not updated my profile, I am in Idaho now. I did only use pressure treated on the rim joists because they touch concrete, but I did not know about the 18" deal. I should get at least 5 years out of this floor I'm sure. If it caves back in I guess I will need to dig out the dirt to get that clearance...

joecaption 12-09-2012 10:11 PM

May be to late now but there also should have been a 6 mil. vaper barrier layed down on the ground before the joist went in.
If not someones going to be back in there again.
You did use joist hangers, right?

thehvacguy 01-07-2013 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joecaption (Post 1069971)
May be to late now but there also should have been a 6 mil. vaper barrier layed down on the ground before the joist went in.
If not someones going to be back in there again.
You did use joist hangers, right?

Yes I did use joist hangers, but I didn't think about the plastic. I have been seeing that a lot on jobs up here. How exactly does that work/ what does it do? How does moisture travel upwards from the ground where we need to put vapor barrier on the dirt???


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