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Old 10-30-2012, 03:02 PM   #1
walt1122
 
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Flashing a deck??


Hi all, need some help. Getting conflicting opinions on what to use to flash a deck. I saw a link to some IRC website saying it is Code compliant in its instructions and it says that aluminum flashing should not be used with the current copper based pressure treated woods ( contractor used Yella wood, what crap!!!). Went down to my local hardware store and the say hooey! aluminum has be good enough for year and that using vinyl coated or rubberized membrane is not acceptable here in Tennessee. I had some wahoo build a deck a year or so ago and this wet season I saw water seeping out from under my wall directly below where he connected a deck landing. Removed the rock and found the blown-in insulation saturated and the wafer board very, very wet. Dried the wafer board and it seems pretty good. I removed the decking and hardi board siding around a stair platform for the second story deck and saw where they nailed directly into the flashing half inch away from house and water couldn't help but get into the house! I will put a nailing strip further away from the house to allow me to nail down the 5/4 deck boards without going through the flashing but still not sure what flashing I should be using. I really want to fix this once and for all.

thanks

Walt

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Old 10-30-2012, 03:44 PM   #2
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Flashing a deck??


Got a picture?
Your hardware is a little behind the times.
New pressure treat wood is treated with copper, copper in direct contact will fail in no time and be full of holes.
It can be flashed with vinyl, a rubber membrane, copper but not aluminum.
If that ledger board was installed tight to the side of the house there should have been a waterproof barrier install first to the wall.
The best way to build a first floor deck is free standing so there's 0 chance of wall damage. The second best is with rot free spacers so there's drainage between the ledger and the side of the house. Using 1 X 6 lumber as spacers works for me.

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Old 10-30-2012, 03:47 PM   #3
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Flashing a deck??


the copper used in the preservative treated wood is a metal. Aluminum is a metal. when you put dissimilar metals together you can get a galvanic reaction, basically a current that flows between them. this will cause corrosion of the weakest metal leading to failure. thus the reason the American Wood Council states not to allow aluminum to come into contact with preservative treated wood.

could always use copper if you do not want to use vinyl coated. Grace Vycor is a peal and stick product.

Hope this helps!
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Old 10-30-2012, 04:24 PM   #4
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Flashing a deck??


Thanks guys, No there is NO membrane behind the ledger board 2 x 12 they added. Think they left the tyvec in place and just bolted to the 1 1/8 banding making up the perimiter of the second floor. I tried to get them to do it but was dismissed as just a foolish homeowner wanting everything. All I was able to get them to do was use some stainless steel materieal about 10 inches wide but quite thin maybe .009 or .010 thousands thick I had laying around ( I'm a horder and love stuff). That was acceptable cause then they didn't have to buy the alunimum flashing. That was the first guys I hired. Nothing but headaches with them. This new issue of the leaking flashing at the platform is a 40's" by 60 something inch deck 6 inches down from the main deck that transitions from deck to steps. It too is bolted ( lagged) directly to the back wall. It is this flashing that was compromised by the first crew punching holes through when they nailed/screwed the diagional decking to the platform. I had asked as I always do that the job be "Code" or better but that concept seems to be lost on many of the contracters. The guy that I hired this time told me after I questioned him on the use of alunimumn said it was "Southern" Code approved for pressure treated wood. Refused to fix and demanded payment. So here I am pulling off the siding again to fix his mess. Globs of caulk everywhere and questionable application of the aluminm at prime interesecions of deck, platform and siding.

thanks

Walt

Last edited by walt1122; 10-30-2012 at 04:35 PM.
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Old 10-30-2012, 05:05 PM   #5
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Flashing a deck??


I missed in your initial post YELLAWOOD, had to research it .....

from YellaWood (link)

Contact with Aluminum
Aluminum building products may be placed in direct contact with YellaWoodŽ brand products treated with micronized copper preservatives used for interior uses and above ground exterior applications such as decks, fencing, and landscaping projects. Examples of aluminum products include siding, roofing, gutters, door and window trim, flashing, nails, fasteners and other hardware connectors. However, direct contact of micronized copper treated products with aluminum building products should be limited to code-compliant construction applications that provide proper water drainage and do not allow the wood to be exposed to standing water or water immersion.

Micronized Copper Snapshot

  • Treatment Type: Micronized copper azole

so according to the manufacturer aluminum can come into contact with this particular wood treatment.

never heard of YELLAWOOD before .... not used where I am

myself I'd want to use one of the Grace products to prevent contact if possible.

the 2009 IRC Section R502.2.2.1 only states

c. Ledgers shall be flashed to prevent water from contacting the house band joist.

does not specify what the flashing is to be constructed from.

Hope this helps!
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Old 10-30-2012, 05:25 PM   #6
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Flashing a deck??


Mr. Brackins is correct in noting that aluminum and CQA (quaternary copper, a common preservative) mix very badly. It is certainly possible to install ice and water shield or equivalent over the ledger board, and install the aluminum on top of the membrane, so the membrane isolates the aluminum flashing. It is also possible to install aluminum flashing over a ledger board so the aluminum does not actually contact the wood because it is properly bent. This is tricky, I suggest using ice and water shield or equivalent as an isolator if you want to use aluminum. Copper flashing works nicely, but is quite expensive compared to aluminum, and is harder to work with since it is heavier.

I used aluminum flashing over a CQA treated ledger board, isolated with ice and water shield. So far so good, it has been two years, but that is a pretty short period of time, so it is hard to know if this is a good long term solution.
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Old 10-30-2012, 05:34 PM   #7
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Flashing a deck??


Hi Gary, Be thankful that you NEVER hear or have to use YELLAWOOD. Southern yellow pine but no quality control. Terrible looking boards, knots, splits, warps (cups), they have shrunk over an inch so far on the deck leaving a sizeable gab between butted deck boards. Then the boards oozed a greenish liquid that nothing would take off. Not tree sap they did that too. Copper penny tarnish green leaching through the freshly stained boards. Had their rep come over and tried to tell me that was natural and all boards did it. Well up North we used Wolmanized treated wood for years and I never saw this happen. Had a deck and a set of basement stairs made from the new formula wood at our NJ house and nothing like this happened. To shut me up he gave me 6 replacement boards but I had to repair bad boards myself. I would get from Lowes or HD before I ever use this junk again.

Thanks for the help, the Yellawood link and Code information. Sounds like there are issues but not well defined in the Code as of yet. I will look around for some roofing membrane like products like Grace to seperate the wood from the metal. Interesting while doing a search here at DIY I saw a link to some IRC site that said the Micronized copper azole should not be used either. Oh well. worst case I will leave as much of his work on the house but just cover with membrane and or the SS roll I have.

thanks again

Walt
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Old 10-30-2012, 05:42 PM   #8
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Flashing a deck??


thanks to Joecaption and Daniel Holzman for your assistance as well.

Walt
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Old 10-30-2012, 05:43 PM   #9
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Flashing a deck??


greenish liquid is probably the copper treatment .... I think unforeseen issues will show themselves over the next few years with this product and aluminum contact

I spec out either stainless steel, copper or a combination of ice and water shield flashing preventing contact with aluminum. of course I'm in a coastal environment as well

good not to be in Jersey right now, wife's family got hit pretty hard

Glad to help!
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Old 10-30-2012, 05:49 PM   #10
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Flashing a deck??


Yeah, storm hit everyone pretty hard. We have a friends kid look in on our place in NJ whene we are here. Haven't heard from him yet but I do know our power went off early last night and hasn't come back on yet. From what I'm hearing on the news it could be quite some time before things get back to normal. Hope your wife's family get out of this OK.

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Old 10-30-2012, 05:50 PM   #11
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Flashing a deck??


thanks Walt!

everyone made out fine, they are across the river from Philly

lots of wind and rain, but homes still standing
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Old 10-30-2012, 05:57 PM   #12
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Flashing a deck??


glad to hear it.
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Old 10-30-2012, 06:39 PM   #13
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Flashing a deck??


i agree with gb about using ice and water to break the contact between wood and metal flashing however.. ice and water is a thick product and can be difficult to bend clean and crisp where its a thicker product,

we use the 6" rolls of grace vycor for just this.. even still making hte inside fold is tricky,, i pre fold it and very very lightly score the backing peel away paper with a fresh utility knife blade on the fold so the paper is sliced but not the membrane. tuck the large portion of it on the wall down hard to the ledger and pull that portion of paper off.. once stuck then fold down the overlap flap and pull that peice of paper. gives a much neater finish. dont try to do it in one long run though.. its easier to do it in 3' runs just be sure to overlap it by 4"
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Old 10-30-2012, 06:53 PM   #14
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Flashing a deck??


thanks woodworkbykirk
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Old 10-30-2012, 09:25 PM   #15
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Flashing a deck??


i forgot to mention.. that vycor is also used for taping off window nailing flanges.. do not use ice and water shield.. not because of the thickness but because its asphalt based and can adversely react with the vinyl which causes it to break down much quicker

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